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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2013 21:38 
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Joined: Wed 19 Sep 2012 17:35
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Location: Central NY, USA.
I'm a complete noob so many of you might not even read this. That's ok though because everyone who wants to can voice their opinion here. I watched a replay of the match between Dmitri18 and Vasily Krypsov that started this thread because they are fun to watch sometimes and I want to learn. I want to learn because this is one of the modern games that's almost like a simulator that deals with a period I'm interested in. Something, in ways, I did in RL.

What I've read begins to sound like an argument between 2 different philosophies in both the PC and war gaming community. One group prefers and promotes "realism" while the other group prefers "playability". This debate has been going on for many years in a variety of different war games. It's often what denotes the difference between what we call a 'simulator' and a 'game'. I think that people who prefer something that reflects reality more closely dislike 'spamming' units of one or a few types into a rush while people who are more interested in playability don't care about that. They only care about whether or not it helps one win the game. Both sides have their own merit but I don't think it's an argument that is going to be resolved here. Nor does it need to be if players or clans set up matches that voluntarily reflect more of one than the other. I'm sure many of us have ideas on how to do this.

That said, this situation seems pretty clear. Like it or not, unit selection and force composition is at the player's discretion based on individual deck construction. All participants knew this prior to the beginning of the tournament. Arguments about the validity of "spamming" should have been presented before the beginning, not after one has lost a match. Accusations of cheating should not be made lightly or without proof. That proof should be submitted to the developers for a determination before any statements are made publicly IMO. To do otherwise is distasteful and seems like poor sportsmanship. It certainly won't help one's cause and, may have a deleterious effect on potentially valid claims. All losses should first be viewed as learning experiences, not unfairness or manipulation.

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2013 21:41 
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A heck of a good post...

+1


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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2013 21:44 
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Joined: Mon 13 Feb 2012 18:29
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Yeah, I have to concede to the new guy. Very well put, and kind of puts us arguing sods down a bit.

+1

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PostPosted: Thu 24 Jan 2013 21:45 
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Joined: Thu 12 Jul 2012 18:55
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skyray awesome post, all players should be like this...

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Last edited by maxiking117 on Fri 25 Jan 2013 15:43, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri 25 Jan 2013 13:01 
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Joined: Sat 22 Sep 2012 13:27
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Well said.

Shaun


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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jan 2013 03:44 
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Now that I've been knocked out.Here are the bunch of replays as promised earlier of which many I do not chopper spam.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0g81odqahlk8c ... eplays.rar

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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jan 2013 10:36 
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Joined: Mon 13 Feb 2012 18:29
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Thanks Vasily

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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jan 2013 10:49 
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Very well said skyray... maybe Eugen should that state in their rules :)

btw.: the past week i made a test:

i tried your chopper spam in ranked games (never did that before) and was seeking for the first player, who can actually handle it... i found him/her (CORSAIR was the name)right now after 12 'succesful' games, which none of them endured more then 3minutes.

So in conclusion i gotta say: if you want to boost your ELO just do that, it works immediatly... ok you will make a lot of people very angry and you destroy the player base of the ranked games more or less, but you will get in the high rankings with it and get a lot of reputation, when you join a game ;)

But i have to damit, it feels kinda bad, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth and it isn't fun at all... thatswhy i want to excuse myself to those 12 players, that for sure had a really bad time... even though it was a short period :)

At least i learned, how to deal with it... and now back to the game :D

Greetings

Das Spawnfärkäl

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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jan 2013 11:47 
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Joined: Mon 13 Feb 2012 18:29
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Well done Spawnfarkal. So, i guess you are right, developers should have blocked such tactics from the game, since they are more harmful to balanced tourney conditions and to the player base. 12 games in under 3 minutes is kinna saying it all - thank you for this test.

Care to share how the helo spam was successfully countered by that 13th player?

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PostPosted: Mon 28 Jan 2013 12:36 
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Joined: Tue 21 Feb 2012 21:37
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VasFURY wrote:
Well done Spawnfarkal. So, i guess you are right, developers should have blocked such tactics from the game, since they are more harmful to balanced tourney conditions and to the player base. 12 games in under 3 minutes is kinna saying it all - thank you for this test.


Helicopter spam is more dangerous because of how quickly it arrives, but the main factor is and will always be the fact that most people deploy a wide and spread out army too early and have no capability to deal with a concentrated force. This is the same for ANY push, but again, the hasty arrival of the helicopters makes it harder to counter.

There should be no rule disallowing a strategy. If there is a problem, it has to be fixed with gameplay changes or metagame changes. Not all of us agree that the game should be über-realistic, and I frankly don't care how cheesy a strategy feels if it can be dealt with appropriately. I see this as a strategy game primarily. Whether or not you think rushing is too effective currently does not mean something should be disallowed.


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