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 Post subject: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2012 22:58 
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed 18 Jan 2012 10:03
Posts: 220
Location: hungary
Sadly i noticed very good players falling out from the cup because of stupid mindless rushes from low level players.
Every player can be beaten(even Tigga and Darricks) with this "strategies".

And more and more players discover the fact if they spam helos, vabs, t55 and hit move fast and win...
And they do the same in ranked now.

Devs: Is this the game you wanted to create?
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=113359690
1:30 min. I cant say any other RTS you can win within such a tiny time.

And the solution is easy. Manpower... similar like COH had.


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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2012 23:19 
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Warrant Officer

Joined: Mon 20 Feb 2012 01:30
Posts: 453
We have manpower, it's called command points.

The only difference is we start with a lot of command points, rather than a little.

Also, I was REALLY good at CoH as well. Like, arguably best in the world during the time I played. And I rushed, so, so much.


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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2012 23:22 
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Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2012 09:43
Posts: 1938
Location: Paris
What prevents a rush in CoH is that you have a base with two MG protecting the entrances. There was even some maps which were patched because there was a way to bypass these defences and rush with flame pioneers.
Secondly, to destroy a player in CoH you have to destroy all his base building which takes a lot of time. In WEE you don't have buildings and command vehicles are weak.

Starting with low resources wouldn't solve the problem at all. Commands will still be weak and you still wouldn't have a base to protect them.

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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2012 23:38 
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Warrant Officer

Joined: Mon 20 Feb 2012 01:30
Posts: 453
FLX wrote:
What prevents a rush in CoH is that you have a base with two MG protecting the entrances. There was even some maps which were patched because there was a way to bypass these defences and rush with flame pioneers.
Secondly, to destroy a player in CoH you have to destroy all his base building which takes a lot of time. In WEE you don't have buildings and command vehicles are weak.

Starting with low resources wouldn't solve the problem at all. Commands will still be weak and you still wouldn't have a base to protect them.


Actually the base was really permeable. All you needed was a halftrack to get pass the hmg bunkers and then some shreks to take out the base.

Hell, on some maps there were big enough gaps in the bunker coverage that you could simply walk through.

Seriously, Google "Bentguru Company of heroes" or check
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... e-strategy
which was probably the first rush related whine thread for CoH ever, and cause entirely by a strategy I pioneered :D


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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2012 23:39 
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First Sergeant

Joined: Wed 18 Jan 2012 10:03
Posts: 220
Location: hungary
Bentguru: you making a rush with mixed units. Thats totally different.

These guys make rush with only max 4 type of unit.
http://escalation.eu/?viewReplay=605
http://ohmpro.org/MB/tempo/wc_round3.wargamerpl

MAybe you can counter and survive if you saved 500 points at start. Maybe..

Is it normal to have 80 units at start? or 40+ helo??? This is insane. This is killing the game.


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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2012 23:42 
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Warrant Officer

Joined: Mon 20 Feb 2012 01:30
Posts: 453
I've watched those, and was suitably proud of the rushers. They used good tactics and overran their enemies promptly. They certainly had cleaner games than I had, albeit against worse opponents.

So long as you attack aggressively and are able to punch through the enemy lines it doesn't matter what units you use. Personally I only use 4 main units anyway soo...

There is no "fair" in competition, there is winning and then there is not winning. I aim to win.


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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Sun 16 Dec 2012 23:47 
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Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2012 09:43
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Location: Paris
bentguru wrote:
FLX wrote:
What prevents a rush in CoH is that you have a base with two MG protecting the entrances. There was even some maps which were patched because there was a way to bypass these defences and rush with flame pioneers.
Secondly, to destroy a player in CoH you have to destroy all his base building which takes a lot of time. In WEE you don't have buildings and command vehicles are weak.

Starting with low resources wouldn't solve the problem at all. Commands will still be weak and you still wouldn't have a base to protect them.


Actually the base was really permeable. All you needed was a halftrack to get pass the hmg bunkers and then some shreks to take out the base.

Hell, on some maps there were big enough gaps in the bunker coverage that you could simply walk through.

Seriously, Google "Bentguru Company of heroes" or check
http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... e-strategy
which was probably the first rush related whine thread for CoH ever, and cause entirely by a strategy I pioneered :D
Yeah I know your replays and CoH, I played it for 5 years but my point is that if destroying the two bunkers instantly gave you the win there would be much more rush in CoH. What makes rush so viable in wee is that commands are rare and fragile.

Having cheaper commands would help a lot in my opinion.

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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Mon 17 Dec 2012 00:03 
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Warrant Officer

Joined: Mon 20 Feb 2012 01:30
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FLX wrote:
Yeah I know your replays and CoH, I played it for 5 years but my point is that if destroying the two bunkers instantly gave you the win there would be much more rush in CoH. What makes rush so viable in wee is that commands are rare and fragile.

Having cheaper commands would help a lot in my opinion.


So would having much fewer points available at start as well.


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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Mon 17 Dec 2012 00:13 
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Joined: Thu 25 Oct 2012 17:54
Posts: 409
It's hard to survive to a rush, but i think it's not impossible, i've survived a lot of time, a good prepared rush is harder cause the enemy has so much more points than u, but even in this situation i think i would survive, u only need to play wisely and don't lose control of your mind. Tigga made a guide for avoiding rushes read it.

Yep, it's hard to see how a game ends so soon for a guy rushing insanely

Lonfield

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 Post subject: Re: wargame RUSH cup
PostPosted: Mon 17 Dec 2012 00:43 
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Major
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Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2012 09:43
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Location: Paris
bentguru wrote:
FLX wrote:
Yeah I know your replays and CoH, I played it for 5 years but my point is that if destroying the two bunkers instantly gave you the win there would be much more rush in CoH. What makes rush so viable in wee is that commands are rare and fragile.

Having cheaper commands would help a lot in my opinion.


So would having much fewer points available at start as well.
The ennemy rushes with less units but you also have less units to defend your CV.
Having less units to manage may make it easier to counter but the rushers usually don't manage their units one by one either so the rusher will also be more effective in his management.
I've played low point matches and I think it makes no big difference in case of a rush. However being able to call a new CV for a cheaper price when you're about to lose your last one or start with 3 CVs and hide one would make rushes much less viable since it would be much harder to find all the CVs before your rush runs out of steam.

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