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PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2012 11:08 
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Based on AP damage to morale patch (V 12.10.08.950000069)

Someone asked me to make the old guides again (see th signature for infantry can logistics) and I thought that support was the way to restart. I might eventually cover all units except the tanks (Not my forte).

So here is a quick guide with a rough description of each and every PACT support units, by category. As a reminder, these are mainly my opinions, they are bound to change, and can be flawed, but I'd be happy to correct myself if proven wrong. For the NATO artillery guide, it's this way.

First, we will review Anti-Air (AA). There are three main types of AA:

Autocanon AA
Autocanon AA are generally cheap, short range AA systems. Their main advantages are a rather cheap cost, the ability to stun, the possibility of shooting at ground targets, and little need for supplies. The main drawback is lack of range, causing other issues. It should be noted that all autocanons shoot at 1226 range against ground targets. ! Do not mistake Autocanon AA with AAA. AAA means anti-air artillery !

Missile AA
Missile-armed AA are generally costly medium to long range AA systems. For PACT, most Missile AA will be able to one-shot NATO helicopters that are generally more fragile. They generally need to have supply trucks just by them in order to keep firing, and generally have trouble at countering spam.

Combined AA
Combined AA have both autocanon and missiles, meaning they cover any combat range, but generally cost more.

Second, we'll review artillery, and their two categories:

"Tube" artillery
Standard artillery, with the generall idea of "Big canon means big bang". Generally good at continuous fire.

Multiple Rocket Launcher System (MLRS)
MLRS systems, based on Stalin's Organs, are sort of shotgun artillery, blanketing an area.

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A quick note on vehicles:

Wheeled vehicles all go at the same speed on roads. All tracked vehicles go at the same speed on roads. Tracked vehicles are slower on roads than wheeled ones. Wheeled vehicles have trouble managing difficult terrains (hedges, forests, etc...) and go very slowly in them.

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Autocanon AA

Short range AA systems, the Autocanon AA are to be used to defend missile AA from enemy helicopters that could overwhelm them, and protect forests from suicide helicopters that would want to fly over them.

BTR-152E ZPTU-2
(Wheeled, slow, no armour, 15pts)
Cheap at 15 points, it is really bad. No armour, a very slow speed, a very small range... You can have as efficient AA with basic MMG and HMG mounted on other vehicles. I'll be honest, I never tried it.

BTR-152E ZPTU-4
(Wheeled, slow, no armour,25pts)
Forget it. No armour, a very slow speed, a very small range... With double the rate of fire of the ZPTU-2 for 10 more points, it still has all the bad features of its ancestor, and costs too much for the job. Never tried it either.

KAMAZ ZU-23-2
(Wheeled, fast, no armour, 15pts)
With a rather poor range, it's not really a necessary addition to your forces. Basically, an autocanon on a fast truck. It is still more interesting than the ZPTU, while suffering most of the same drawbacks (for cheaper).

FlakPz Shilka & ZSU-23-4V SHILKA
(Tracked, slow, poor operational range, 25pts)
With decent accuracy and range for an acceptable price, it is a good option as defence for your original command vehicle in a forest, but a bad one if you need to go mobile. The FlakPz version though shouldn't be taken in non thematic decks as it doesn't bring any upgraded versions in the deck choice.

ZSU-23-4V1 SHILKA
(Tracked, slow, poor operational range, 30pts)
A slight upgrade for the 4V SHILKA, it's just a little more mobile and accurate. The addition of poor quality stabilizers doesn't make it a good mobile vehicle. Still, for 5 more points than its ancestor, these are quite good bonuses. If you can afford it or might need to move, take those over the basic one.

ZSU-23-4MZ BIRYUZA
(Tracked, slow, poor operational range, 40pts)
An upgrade for the 4V1 SHILKA, its range has been increased for 10 more points and it gained bad side armour. That additional range can be the difference that counts. If used in a mobile force, take this one. I just don't really recommend it due to the low operational range and poor offroad speed. If you intend to have them in forests, don't bother as the additional range will be useless.

NOTE ABOUT THE ZSU-23-4 AFGHANSKII in the VEHICLE section: It has a shorter range, but more mobility. It can be used to fill the roles of the early shilka versions, but as it is a deck choice of its own, it might be a waste.


ZSU-57-2
(Tracked, slow, horrible operational range, 20pts)
With the best autocanon range available to PACT AA, it's a quite decent gun for the price. Its very low accuracy can be troublesome, but for that cheap, the range is quite useful at stunning and scaring off helicopters. Not a must have, but a cheap tool than can work. Just keep it supplied in ammo and fuel.

M53/59 PRAGA
(Wheeled, fast, no armour, 20pts)
With a rather poor range, this system is still a good addition to a force as it has a quite good accuracy and is rather cheap. If you want to include a STROP 2 in your force, think about using PRAGA to fill the gaps and possibly shoot at the ground forces.

STROP 1
(Tracked, 30pts)
With a rather poor range, this system isn't a too good addition to a mobile force. Compared to the PRAGA, it's more accurate, but suffers from a very bad operational range in exchange for armour. It is best used as a rather cheap command vehicle defender like you would use a SHILKA, and its great accuracy will cause rapid stunning of enemy helicopters flying over, while the armour would give it a chance against ground vehicles.


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Missile AA

2K12KUB
(Tracked, long range, 50pts)
The KUB is a long range missile platform that isn't really worth it: With three missiles, it costs a lot to ressuply. Rather bad accuracy, a HE value that is of no use (Too much for just 5HP helos, too little for 10HP ones), and has a very bad rate of fire meaning it easily gets overwhelmed, in a slightly overpriced 50pts package. To use if you ever run out of BUK.

9K37 BUK
(Tracked, long range, 70pts)
Like he KUB, the BUK is a long range missile platform that isn't really worth it compared to its upgrade: With an HE of 9, it can't One-shot 10HP helicopters like it's variant, meaning it can waste missiles for almost dead helos.

9K37 BUK-M1
(Tracked, extreme range, 85pts)
With the best possible range, accuracy and damage, this thing will one-shot any helicopter that gets in range, as long as you provide good recon and clear line of sight to it. Best possible missile AA for PACT, it's still a huge investment, to be used cautiously, in open areas. Give it one supply truck and some shorter range AA as cover, and it will last the whole game.

9K33 OSA
(Wheeled, fast, unarmoured, 25 points, inaccurate)
With a bad range, few missiles, zero survivability and terrible accuracy, it's best to avoid it. It's HE of 5 is sufficient against most NATO helicopters though.

9K33 OSA AK
(Wheeled, fast, unarmoured, 35 points, inaccurate)
With a rather short range, few missiles, zero survivability and bad accuracy, it's not a good choice. It's HE of 5 is sufficient against most NATO helicopters though, and if bought should have veteran levels.

9K33 OSA AKM
(Wheeled, fast, unarmoured, 40 points, inaccurate)
With a rather good range, few missiles, zero survivability and bad accuracy, it's still a good choice if bought with veterancy. It's HE of 6 is a bit overkill, but it can keep up with a mobile force, and with a good rate of fire doesn't really need "Anti-swarm" help.

MT-LB STRELA-10
(Tracked, inaccurate, great rate of fire, 45pts)
This could be a good firing system, but it really isn't. A small range, a bad accuracy, and HE 4 mean that it will require two hits to take down a basic NATO helicopter, and that those two hits have little chance of happening. It has a great amount of ammunition and a great rate of fire meaning it can keep firing longer than most other systems. But it can't hit the broadside of a barn two times in a row, when that's (almost) what you'd want from it.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Combined AA

Versatile systems useful to save up deck slots, they can't really be the only AA you have. None can fire both systems at the same time, so it's sometimes wise to de-activate the autocanons if the opponent stays at medium range, in order not to lose the locks.

2K22 TUNGUSKA
(Tracked, armoured, 65pts)
Not a really good unit, as its missiles only have an HE of 4, bad accuracy and an average range. Only to be used when you run out of its upgrade. The Autocanon is good with very good range, but you would pay a lot for jsut an armoured autocanon.

2K22M TUNGUSKA
(Tracked, armoured, 75pts)
For 10 more points than the older version, the "tung M" is a very good but cosltly unit. Its missiles have a great range though they miss quite a lot, requiring at least one level of veterancy, further increasing the costs. The Autocanon is really good and accurate if the enemy manages to get too close with a quite good range. Not in my decks any more due to the price, it's still a very good vehicle, able to fill any situation you ask of it, and able to survive a helicopter that would manage to shoot rockets at it.

STROP 2
(Wheeled, lightly armoured, 50pts)
With a sure-kill missile with a rather short range and a quite decent autocanon, this vehicle is a quite good system, for cheaper but less versatile than a tunguska. Due to an overall closer range, it's best used as an ambush vehicle. For two Tunguskas, you can buy three of these, covering more of the airspace. Due to its excellent speed, it can run after its targets or relocate. Overall, you could say it's a lesser tunguska that exchanges range for mobility. Both choices are equally worth each other, though if you use a BUK the tunguska's range is not really important, and covering more emplacements with a strop a good idea. The Deck choice also offers some acceptable Autocanon AA for cheap, freeing yourself from taking an other deck choice to cover command vehicles.

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Tube artillery

"Tube" or Canon artillery is here for continuous pounding of an area. They are good at forcing the opponent to move, or covering an approach. To me, tube arty must be able to do sustained fire, and either survive or escape counter-battery fire. Most other things are fun but rarely useful (like direct fire abilities) while bumping the price.

2S3 AKATSIYA
HE 5, 55pts
An average artillery piece, decent at artillery job. Best used in relatively important numbers (groups of 4) to have an impact, but due to the price it is affordable.

2S3M AKATSIYA
HE 5, 65pts
An average artillery piece, decent at artillery job. Best used in relatively important numbers (groups of 4) to have an impact. With a better accuracy, rate of fire, and a direct fire ability, it can be ok, though you will lose the numbers available with the earlier version due to the price increase.

2S19 MSTA-S
HE 5, 90pts
Even more accurate, a better range, shooting slightly faster, more mobile, and way tougher it's kind of a waste of points actually. Good but costs a lot more due to not so useful improvements. Better use more of the lesser variants.

2S7 PION
HE 7, 70pts
One of the most powerful artillery in game, the PION is quite accurate, but eats through supplies really fast and is overshadowed by its upgrade, the MALKA.

2S7M MALKA
HE 7, 80pts
For 10 more points, this is a good upgrade for the PION. More ammo means a lesser consumption of supplies/shot (tough it does require FOBs if the game has a chance to be long), bigger range means slightly better accuracy, and its rate of fire increased by 50%. Its HE of 7 really is a monster meaning instant stun on a broad area after impact. It's not for pinpoint jobs though, and is best used in relative numbers (2 to 4 depending on game size) to have chances of having an effect, otherwise the slow rate of fire means the opponent has all the time in the world to just move away from the points of impact. Best used on large games.

DANA
HE 5, 90pts, very accurate
A very accurate artillery piece. If using corrected fire, it is the most accurate artillery in the game, same as the AuF1. Its good mobility and affordable price make it good at working closer to the front, and the ammo consumption is affordable, meaning Mi-26s can do the trick for a mobile firing center, no need for additional FOBs. It has a direct fire ability but only AP 2, so not worth using (better run if you meet something).

MLRS

MLRS systems are used to wreck areas in a short time. They suffer from high ammo consumption and slow reloads. They are best used in pairs to completely shell the targeted area.

BM-21 GRAD & MFRW BM-21
HE 3, 70pts
Quite bad and with a huge minimal range, you can forget about them. Their only saving grace is that their shooting is rather continuous, totally clearing forests with infantry in them though any armoured unit will survive.

RM-70 & MFRW RM-70
HE 3, 130pts
Same as the BM-21 with an additional MMG and twice the ammo. Can be interesting since they use less supplies, but the overall inefficiency still kills that unit (and it is clearly overpriced).

BM-27 URGAN
HE 5, 130pts
Rather overpiced, this units isn't worth the bucks. It's firepower is good, but the ammo consumption, low number of shots, and poor accuracy ruin it.

BM-30 SMERCH
HE 6, 160pts
For an important price, this unit can be a game changer in 2v2 and above. Strongest MLRS in the game with a decent accuracy, concentrated fire will damage and stun even highly armoured units. It's ammo consumption and reload times are its major downsides. Also, if the enemy shoots artillery to counter them, they can't hit anything. In team games, they are game changers.

TOS-1 BURATINO
HE 5, 150pts
Sort of an artillery shotgun, the burratino in a situational piece of artillery with an extremely short range. It is used to counter infantry blob&rush "Tactic", and is great at clearing woods & towns before attacking, though leaving it in the open to shoot will often see incoming ATGMs en masse as it's a juicy target, and enemy mortars will shot at it if spotted to reduce its already low accuracy. Don't show it, and use it a thrump card for devastating occasions. It will require a lot of supplies after each shot, and its reload time is rather long.

Special thanks: SOLVENS

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Last edited by DeuZerre on Tue 16 Oct 2012 10:55, edited 9 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2012 15:09 
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DeuZerre wrote:
2S19 MSTA-S
HE 5, 90pts
Even more accurate and more mobile, it's kind of a waste. better use more of the lesser variants.

Actually as far as I remember there shouldn't be any accuracy increase from 2S3M AKATSIYA to MSTA (EDIT: but there is increase in rate of fire instead).

Also for DANA its worth noting its only disadvantage, it has worst armor among pact tube arty (1/0/0/0, while most are 1/1/0/0 and MSTA is 3/1/1/0), making it a bit more vulnerable for counterbattery.


Last edited by Sarvik on Mon 23 Jul 2012 15:19, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2012 15:13 
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Sarvik wrote:
DeuZerre wrote:
2S19 MSTA-S
HE 5, 90pts
Even more accurate and more mobile, it's kind of a waste. better use more of the lesser variants.

Actually as far as I remember there shouldn't be any accuracy increase from 2S3M AKATSIYA to MSTA.

Also for DANA its worth noting its only disadvantage, it has worst armor among pact tube arty (1/0/0/0, while most are 1/1/0/0 and MSTA is 3/1/1/0), making it a bit more vulnerable for counterbattery.

I like MSTA S as it can take counter battery fire when you use it in a "mortar" role.

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2012 15:14 
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Quote:
Someone asked me to make the old guides again (see th signature for infantry can logistics) and I thought that support was the way to restart. I might eventually cover all units except the tanks (Not my forte).

Yay just what the doctor ordered :)


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PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2012 15:34 
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Nice, thank you for your work!

PS: The Biryusa seems to be missing.

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PostPosted: Mon 23 Jul 2012 15:50 
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Oliver wrote:
Nice, thank you for your work!

PS: The Biryusa seems to be missing.


Most probably.

Sarvik wrote:
DeuZerre wrote:
2S19 MSTA-S
HE 5, 90pts
Even more accurate and more mobile, it's kind of a waste. better use more of the lesser variants.

Actually as far as I remember there shouldn't be any accuracy increase from 2S3M AKATSIYA to MSTA (EDIT: but there is increase in rate of fire instead).

Also for DANA its worth noting its only disadvantage, it has worst armor among pact tube arty (1/0/0/0, while most are 1/1/0/0 and MSTA is 3/1/1/0), making it a bit more vulnerable for counterbattery.


For the MSTA-S, I'm almost certain there is an accuracy increase, in the same pattern as the PALADIN for the US. Will have to double check.

EDIT: I omitted a few things about the MSTA-S, including the range.

For the DANA, its mobility is a great bonus, as you can generally move out from harm's way pretty fast compared to other artillery: Counter-battery won't hit you, and you'll be able to shoot again faster (as you aren't panicked). When I say it's accurate, it is DEAD ON accurate. You can snipe command vehicles with them all day. Very, very far from "worth noting". For 90 points really, deal.

If anything that isn't artillery shoots at your DANA and kills them, it's not the DANA's fault for bein fragile, it's your faulf for letting someone get close to them.

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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2012 09:24 
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Also a nice guide. Kind of surprised at the 80 or 90 pts costing BUK M1 tho. Thats an expensive AA tool to lose. That needs to kill a lot of choppers to "break even". I used the normal kub or buk with some ok results. I only had one or two games where it failed horribly :P Getting killed by an apache whilst there where 2 normal tunguska's covering as well :P They just couldn't hit the Apaches.

Same with my Nato deck. I used the AMX Roland there (after I stepped down from Chapparels). I will try out your advices, curious about the difference.


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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2012 09:33 
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About the BUK, the thing is that it is perfect.

Generally speaking, it is 4 shots, 4 kills.

As soon as you locate a target, the shot flies and will almost always hit, always kill on hit, and won't waste missiles like most AA systems: The rate of fire is just low enough for a second shot not to be fired before the first one hits, and therefore wasted (like most other firing systems).

So as long as it is fed with targets, it pays its price back. Even just taking out a recon chopper and it's win.

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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2012 11:21 
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I Play a lot with ZPTU 4

It's an interesting tool to put in forest or ambush...

it cost nothing, have a bunch of supply so it's independant, can shocked every vehicule that come, and when your opponent just loose one or two helos to this type of guys he just nevert try again to go threw a forest^^

Good to use, but situationnal...

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PostPosted: Tue 24 Jul 2012 11:26 
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For the price, I'd take the KAMAZ over the ZPTU: Just a bit better range, accuracy, but lower rate of fire, and moves faster if needed.

I actually use my PRAGA sort of in the same role sometimes, but that's because I use the STROP 2 a lot.

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