I can't say I'm surprised someone find that there is no problem, I can't say I would be surprised if after the following and detailed analysis you would still think there is no problem but I will always be curious of the justification

M151 A-2 ITV vs first group of T55 (NTA = no target available = target already destroyed)
Jeep1 98%: Miss ; Hit (likely)
Jeep2 102%: Miss ; Miss (Impossible)
Jeep3 104%: Hit ; Hit (likely)
Jeep4 106%: Hit ; Hit the wrek (likely)

M151 A-2 ITV vs second group of T55
Jeep1 96%: Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; NTA (unlikely)
Jeep2 97%: HIT ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; NTA (likely then unlikely)
Jeep3 100%: Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; NTA ; HIT (Impossiblethen likely )
Jeep4 103%: HIT ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; HIT ; Miss (likely then Impossible then likely then Impossible)

AMX HOT vs third group of T55
AMX1 90% : Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss (unlikely)
AMX1 93% : HIT ; HIT ; HIT (likely likely likely)
AMX1 96% : Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; NTA (unlikely)
AMX1 97% : Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; HIT (unlikely then likely)

VAB Mephisto vs T62
VAB1 85% : Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; (unlikely)
VAB1 87% : HIT ; Hit the wrek (likely likely)
VAB1 89% : HIT ; Hit the wrek (likely likely)
VAB1 90% : HIT ; Hit the wrek (likely likely)

M901itv vs T62
M901itv1 116% : Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss (Impossible)
M901itv2 119% : HIT ; HIT ; HIT (likely likely likely)
M901itv3 122% : Miss ; HIT ; Miss ; Miss (Impossible likely Impossible)
M901itv4 125% : Miss ; Miss ; Miss ; Miss (Impossible)

So we have 35 couples shooter/target, 21 likely result 6 unlikely result (under 0.01%) and 8 totaly impossible result.
We have 40% chance to have a result impossible or with a probability under 0.01% I think we are far from the 1% bug you think there is.


I use cover because units in the open tend to run away if shot at with weapons OFF. The first tests made by Tordin Varglund were in the oppen and it was the same. Cover may make the bug happen more offen (hard to demonstrate) but it is not a condition to the bug.
The bug is easy to spot when it happens : the missile move right to the target and fly over. In the case of a real miss you see the missle hitting the ground right in front of the vehicle or passing next to it.

Someone can try the same things with tanks shell and you will see that they hit as supposed (I've seen that doing my chart but enough testing for me today)

One possible explaination to the bug would be that ATGM were initialy designed to hit top armor from time to time as in this video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUMxZ34Ptco but the top armor hit feature is bugged.

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Eugen's law of maximal pain in the ass : If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong on Friday evening.

Interesting, the top armour theory could be the cause. But as ever, there are still many questions left to be answered. Was there any change to missile behaviour in any of the patch notes? It may be an incomplete feature, or purposeful to balance ATGM power?

It wasn't explained what it meant that's why I remade the tests but nothing changed. However I've spoted something odd rewatching my replay : every time an ATGM unit able to fire multiple missiles in a row changes his target it reloads even if it would normaly be able to shoot some more missles before reloading.
This could be related the the patch note.

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Eugen's law of maximal pain in the ass : If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong on Friday evening.

The top-attack TOW-2B wasn't in service until the 1990s.

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I can corroborate this bug still appearing in the post patch game. In the case I remember (but no replay, sorry) a pair of AMX HOTs spent their full payload of missiles on a BRDM sitting in open field from an elevated position. Twice as I tried moving them around a bit after the first batch. No hits scored in either case. So I can also confirm that moving the ATGM vehicle may not break the bug.

Another thing with ATGM that I mentioned couple of times for consideration - have ATGMs hit more often when they have a clear LOS on the target (esp.from an elevated position, which would include choppers) and have them hit less likely when the target is in/behind cover, moves through cover, or the ATGM is under fire/worried/shaken etc.

ATGM's do seem to have some issue with hitting or detonating. I usually use them from 2000m or so as any closer and they are dead as they don't survive anything.

I have had a 3/4vet Stryker hit 3 out of 3 from 2000m on a tank in open field. Then reload I the game right before that and it will miss the same shot many times, but against the AI it can be a sniper if micro managed.

Same with Panzergrenadiers/Marder 1A1's. Vetted or not, they either hit or miss. Accuracy seems to have nothing to do with it. If I save the game before I use them I can get them to work properly. Meaning I micro them with saving.
I have had them take out many tanks and such from 2000m but the consistency is nuts!! From 3/4 hits to no hits at all many times.

Size of the units and whether they are on same level may affect it as well, but 50% accuracy does not seem to indicate a 2/4 hit ratio.

Like a die is rolled in the background, and you keep getting a bad roll! DnD style!!
I have seen them go right for the tank and at last minute they move a bit and miss, as if a roll is performed at the end if the flight. As they are right now, they are more or less useless for MP. Most should hit reliably to be useful as they have low survivability anyway.

Need a button for engagement ranges, Close/med/long and group hold/open fire commands. 4 ATGM's, 2 on either side of a road, hidden and opening fire at optimum range(<1500m) should devastate a column. As it is now, it doesn't happen that way.

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So, wait, I wonder does this have anything to do with rounds visibly impacting and having no effect whatsoever?

Because there's also those times I see a TOW detonate and do nothing, same with tank cannons hitting and doing nothing. I assumed this was the game attempting to simulate complete deflection.

Well, ATGMs in general occasionally seem to do this, it's not an issue with the TOW particular, it just instantly comes to mind because that's what I use.

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atgms are broken in this game like everything else move along people something else eugene wont fix

As they were working on the last DLC, weren't they aiming to fix a few problems? I'm sure we'll get plenty of fixes along with whatever we get. I'm happy so long as they keep up the good work.

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Priority #1 for fixing!

As most ATGMs are bugged (which are and how seems to be unclear) the counters to heavy tanks are very few and the paper-rock-scissors is broken. Heavy tanks themselves don't have to be changed if the missiles can be trusted to hit when vetted.

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