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PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 21:26 
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Falconek wrote:
I heard funny thing about 2A6 though:
The longer L55 barrel has bigger inertia, thus compared to 2A5 stabilisation is worse, cause the system has harder task to deal with.
Now... there are basically four types of APFSDS ammunition in the world, that reach over 750mm RHA (which is more or less what you need to break through T-80 front with ERA): M829A2, M829A3, DM53, DM63. Thing is german ammo reaches this parameter only with L55 cannon, while american does it with L44 (thus easier to stabilise) cannon.
At least this is is what I heard... anyway something to think about :)


You can't really compare RHA with composite armor nor pull up an equivalent (especially if the composite armor fitted with ERA). Nobody today will really reveal all technical characteristics about tank armor (like americans/brits not revealing secret of chobham), so you can't really know the level of T-80 armor protection. I've read it somewhere that americans purchased few T-80s after the fall of the soviet union and tested them, no results were revealed to public.

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PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 21:48 
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Azaz3l wrote:
I've read it somewhere that americans purchased few T-80s after the fall of the soviet union and tested them, no results were revealed to public.

Brits bought two of them, as far as I remember. They tested it and then sold/gave Americans.

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PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 22:40 
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Azaz3l wrote:
Falconek wrote:
I heard funny thing about 2A6 though:
The longer L55 barrel has bigger inertia, thus compared to 2A5 stabilisation is worse, cause the system has harder task to deal with.
Now... there are basically four types of APFSDS ammunition in the world, that reach over 750mm RHA (which is more or less what you need to break through T-80 front with ERA): M829A2, M829A3, DM53, DM63. Thing is german ammo reaches this parameter only with L55 cannon, while american does it with L44 (thus easier to stabilise) cannon.
At least this is is what I heard... anyway something to think about :)


You can't really compare RHA with composite armor nor pull up an equivalent (especially if the composite armor fitted with ERA). Nobody today will really reveal all technical characteristics about tank armor (like americans/brits not revealing secret of chobham), so you can't really know the level of T-80 armor protection. I've read it somewhere that americans purchased few T-80s after the fall of the soviet union and tested them, no results were revealed to public.


Well it's just my rough assumption, based on "let's say". If T-72B has roughly 470-540 RHA, then "let's say" modern russian tank has 600-650 RHA without ERA. NII STALII (producer of russian ERA) claims that Relikt improves basic protection by 1.5, and Kontakt-5 by 1.2. 750 mm reduced by 1.2 leaves 625 mm piercing power, which should be enough... with Relikt you need to drive closer or hope to hit weak points or places not covered with ERA - which in case of russian tanks except T-90MS is 45-55% of surface.
Also there was a staged "leak" during presentation of T-90MS which claimed turret resistance of 850 mm against APFSDS. This value can only be possible with full effectiveness of ERA in biggest LOS thickness in axis parallel to turret. Even if this value is just marketing statement (and probably exaggerated) it can also give some idea about values without ERA.

Anyway these are just assumptions and we can't know how close or far they are from reality.


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PostPosted: Wed 16 May 2012 23:07 
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What was the staged leak, if I may ask? I imagine it was some hilariously overzealous display where a on-stage 120mm ACCIDENTLY fired at a Relikt protected tank, and it was miraculously unscathed. Then the Soviet flag rolled down behind the display, and their anthem began to play.

Many tears of pride were shed.

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PostPosted: Thu 17 May 2012 03:41 
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Boogie Van wrote:
Well, yeah, now that I look through 'em, so many have SALH on the PACT side. Sooo many. @.@

It doesn't make any difference besides that SALH missiles generally fly faster, though Kokon is SACLOS and about as fast. The Havoc is the only Pact vehicle that can move while a missile is in flight.


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PostPosted: Sun 20 May 2012 21:38 
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Boogie Van wrote:
tungsten is comparatively less ideal to DU to anyone actually insane enough to touch something radioactive. I have moral problems against it's use


You do realize that it is Depleted Uranium aka not radioactive YOU BE DERPING

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PostPosted: Sun 20 May 2012 22:01 
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U-238 (the type of uranium that's called DU) is radioactive. In fact, every element from Bismuth on is radioactive. The kicker, though, is that U-238 has a half-life of 4.468 billion years, so the actual amount of radiation released even within a human lifetime is negligible. You'll get more radiation eating bananas (K-40) or Brazil nuts (radium).
Walk through the radiation detectors at a nuclear power plant with a pocket full of Brazil nuts will likely set off the radiation leak alarm.

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PostPosted: Sun 20 May 2012 22:16 
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Leo2A6 has an updated FCS (Stabilizer included).
Speed and terrain is also unrepresentative of combat situation, you can add to this that tank does not maneuver its gun (ie elevation was not change nor was turret turned).

Hence this video has nearly 0 relevance to the combat performance of the Leo2A4 within 80s.

That said it did have an advantage in scopes over its classmates (M1A1, T80U).

As for armor/armor penetration - T80U has protection equivalent of 700mm RHA within safe angles of maneuver (+/- 35 degrees of center) vs kinetic munitions, while M1A1 (without the DU) had 530-550 direct fire (taking into account the sloped armor coefficient as well) and Leo2A4 had 580.

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PostPosted: Sun 20 May 2012 22:52 
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Xeno426 wrote:
U-238 (the type of uranium that's called DU) is radioactive. In fact, every element from Bismuth on is radioactive. The kicker, though, is that U-238 has a half-life of 4.468 billion years, so the actual amount of radiation released even within a human lifetime is negligible. You'll get more radiation eating bananas (K-40) or Brazil nuts (radium).
Walk through the radiation detectors at a nuclear power plant with a pocket full of Brazil nuts will likely set off the radiation leak alarm.


It's just one of the potential factors contributing to the high(er) cancer rates of troops coming out both Gulf Wars, there's so many different factors contributing to cancer that it surely doesn't help in slightest, and whilst not entirely likely the cause, possible none-the-less. Regardless, the enhanced cancer rates in the populace who've experienced it first hand is also fairly troubling concerning the matter.

saber2243 wrote:
Boogie Van wrote:
tungsten is comparatively less ideal to DU to anyone actually insane enough to touch something radioactive. I have moral problems against it's use


You do realize that it is Depleted Uranium aka not radioactive YOU BE DERPING


There is, aside from that, the fact that the majority of the products involved in nuclear power are more for weaponizing than peace purposes, the moral part of it is where I actually have the issue, the other part was just a joke.

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PostPosted: Sun 20 May 2012 22:54 
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Boogie Van wrote:
Xeno426 wrote:
U-238 (the type of uranium that's called DU) is radioactive. In fact, every element from Bismuth on is radioactive. The kicker, though, is that U-238 has a half-life of 4.468 billion years, so the actual amount of radiation released even within a human lifetime is negligible. You'll get more radiation eating bananas (K-40) or Brazil nuts (radium).
Walk through the radiation detectors at a nuclear power plant with a pocket full of Brazil nuts will likely set off the radiation leak alarm.


It's just one of the potential factors contributing to the high(er) cancer rates of troops coming out both Gulf Wars, there's so many different factors contributing to cancer that it surely doesn't help in slightest, and whilst not entirely likely the cause, possible none-the-less. Regardless, the enhanced cancer rates in the populace who've experienced it first hand is also fairly troubling concerning the matter.

saber2243 wrote:
Boogie Van wrote:
tungsten is comparatively less ideal to DU to anyone actually insane enough to touch something radioactive. I have moral problems against it's use


You do realize that it is Depleted Uranium aka not radioactive YOU BE DERPING


There is, aside from that, the fact that the majority of the products involved in nuclear power are more for weaponizing than peace purposes, the moral part of it is where I actually have the issue, the other part was just a joke.

In any case, why you think that we used depleted uranium in uranium alloy rounds?

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