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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Wed 21 Mar 2012 03:10 
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Here is a relatively simple solution for this problem.

Unit composition:

    2 cheap infantry ~ 40
    1 recon infantry ~ 40
    2 mortars ~ 60
    1 cheap heli (preferably with grenade launcher/rockets) ~ 30

Total generalized cost: ~170

This requires a good bit of micromanaging, but that makes sense since this is a tough spot ingame to deal with. Take your recon infantry and set them on hold fire. Then,

For large forests: Slowly move them through a forest flank until they spot an enemy unit.
For small forest patch: Hit an accessible corner with the mortars and push 1 cheap infantry in. If they survive at the edge of the forest, move in the recon unit and slide it forward until you spot an enemy unit.

Pull your infantry group back and take note of that enemy position. Hit it with the two mortars. Wait a few moments to see if a flame tank moves up; if so, move in your overhead cheap heli to stun it, then hit the flame tank with your infantry and mortars. Repeat this process to remove the enemy presence. If the enemy masses in the forest and attempts to remove your small attacking force, that's even better. They will be consolidated into a nice little spot for your mortars as you attempt to pull back your ground and aerial forces.

I have worked this tactic a few times, but it doesn't seem too necessary for the vast majority of games I play. Usually, I just blanket non-essential forests with artillery for a while as I skirt far around them. And as others have stated above, there are indeed a multitude of ways to counter a heavily defended forest. It all just comes down to what's going to be most effective for the price.

Sure, you could rush the forest with swarms of infantry or splinter it with megatons of explosives, but those don't have a very good cost/benefit ratio. Pure heavy artillery does, but without large accuracy and reconnaissance they're not the ideal solution. Plus, with a solution like this, you can actually gain ground in that forest and in turn make it a headache for your opponent.


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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Wed 21 Mar 2012 06:30 
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@PhantomPharaoh
+1

What is more, if you sneak into the edge of the forest you can use your Zippo too.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Wed 21 Mar 2012 10:38 
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PhantomPharaoh wrote:
Here is a relatively simple solution for this problem..........


Good luck with that - any player that allowed you to do that, did not have a good doom fortress. For a start he let you in the forest! Secondly, to recon enemy units in a forest you have to be very close, so I'd hate to be your recon infantry when those mortar/artillery shells start to rain down and that's presuming you aren't spotted yourself, which is pretty unlikely!


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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Wed 21 Mar 2012 19:24 
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Space wrote:
PhantomPharaoh wrote:
Here is a relatively simple solution for this problem..........


Good luck with that - any player that allowed you to do that, did not have a good doom fortress. For a start he let you in the forest! Secondly, to recon enemy units in a forest you have to be very close, so I'd hate to be your recon infantry when those mortar/artillery shells start to rain down and that's presuming you aren't spotted yourself, which is pretty unlikely!


If the enemy has a completely impenetrable "Doom Fortress", you've already won. He wasted more than a handful of units by hiding them in the trees, never to attack. Lob some artillery at the mass of units in the trees and/or go around them, as I noted at the end of my suggested strategy. Even maps like Fulda Gap and Hell's Highway have vast swaths of unforested land you can help allies push into. And even if you never manage to get into that area, you've left that enemy in a state of perma-defense in the trees. Without attacking, that enemy cannot gain any more kills.


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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2012 06:17 
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Joined: Fri 9 Mar 2012 06:47
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Quote:
He wasted more than a handful of units by hiding them in the trees, never to attack.

Right.

On Fulda Gap there is rather nasty forest fighting in the middle which typically devolves into a flametank battle.

Space, is there any way you could include a screencap?

On most of these forests you could just start lobbing artillery into it with a deviation circle covering either the entire forest or the part that the enemy is holed up in. Then go do something else in the game. Eventually anything in the forest will be pounded into oblivion. If he keeps feeding it with supply trucks he'll keep losing supply and supply trucks.

It rather befuddles me that you think this is such a huge issue. If he puts 200 points in that forest, that's 200 points that aren't assaulting or defending elsewhere on the map, so it should be possible for you to bypass them and achieve local superiority elsewhere with your 200 points that haven't been rendered useless.


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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2012 15:04 
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Slaughtersun wrote:
Quote:
He wasted more than a handful of units by hiding them in the trees, never to attack.

Right.

On Fulda Gap there is rather nasty forest fighting in the middle which typically devolves into a flametank battle.

Space, is there any way you could include a screencap?

On most of these forests you could just start lobbing artillery into it with a deviation circle covering either the entire forest or the part that the enemy is holed up in. Then go do something else in the game. Eventually anything in the forest will be pounded into oblivion. If he keeps feeding it with supply trucks he'll keep losing supply and supply trucks.

It rather befuddles me that you think this is such a huge issue. If he puts 200 points in that forest, that's 200 points that aren't assaulting or defending elsewhere on the map, so it should be possible for you to bypass them and achieve local superiority elsewhere with your 200 points that haven't been rendered useless.


The centre forest on fulda gap is a little different than most, because the whole forest is in a depression and it's also the highest income sector. $200 to defend a command in there is good value and what most good players will do is rush the forest early and control at least half of it asap. A good opponent will also go for it early, and their command will often counter your command - so in that particular forest, on that particular map, it often turns into the 'battle of the doom fortresses'. Artillery is more of an annoyance than anything else - sure you may get the occasional flame tank or infantry squad, but thats a cheap price to pay for tying up your opponents artillery and supply's for a significant amount of time, and any lost units are easily replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2012 15:35 
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Location: Universe, Galaxy, Solar System, Earth, Ground, Eurasian Continent, Main Landmass.
Fulda gap is quite particular in that aspect. However, the more he will build his forteress of doom, the less defences he will have on his ressuply routes. Cutting his reinforcements gets easier and he will not have the opportunity to spend his reinforcement points.

Once all around is clear, surround the middle area with recon helicopters. Once he has a ton of points he will try to make a breakthrough with his command vehicle, and that's where you strike at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2012 15:45 
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DeuZerre wrote:
Fulda gap is quite particular in that aspect. However, the more he will build his forteress of doom, the less defences he will have on his ressuply routes. Cutting his reinforcements gets easier and he will not have the opportunity to spend his reinforcement points.

Once all around is clear, surround the middle area with recon helicopters. Once he has a ton of points he will try to make a breakthrough with his command vehicle, and that's where you strike at it.


In my experience it's useful to have a recon heli over the town at your end of the centre forest early in the game, but after that helis are pretty useless in the centre, and will just cost you points. I always have a chap or buk near the town, and most other players seem to do the same. Getting around to the supply lines is also pretty hard, because the side sectors usually have their own defences which cover access to these areas.

Best way to clear the forest is with lots of inf, preferably with autocannon backup, and lots of flame tanks all with good supplys - then just slowly creep forward. It's a very balanced battlefield, and most players know what to field there so it can be quite good fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Thu 22 Mar 2012 16:19 
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It is a balanced map but I absolutely hate it because of the objectives glued to each other on each side, while huge almost empty areas are unused :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Doom Fortresses
PostPosted: Fri 23 Mar 2012 11:40 
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Joined: Mon 6 Feb 2012 00:11
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Send in the

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:D


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