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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 15:41 
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Foreword: I tend to not "play to win" but rather "play to have fun" - I am willing to use decks or tactics that are not "in the norm." While a standard force is in the comfort zone for many, I find few people try out of the ordinary actions or units.

The goal of this thread is to open your eyes to new ways of playing with the units at hand. Some of these are theoretical and I plan to test them out...but majority of them have been used at least twice by me to some effect. Sure some of these may be known to the average player sure...you may have tried a few... but I figured I would begin writing them down and putting them into place. Some of these tactics are common sense things people do try to do, have written elsewhere, and what not...but often, I don't see much from the main tactics.

I will also cover tactics I have had used against me as I come across them, as well as some things I do to insure my fights are enjoyable and not "OH GOD I LOST EVERYTHING[watches as 5 units try to defense my command.]"


HERE WE GO!
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STANDARD and OVER-DONE TACTICS

Quote:
Something I have noticed, there are a few 'standard' tactics everyone does. They are all valid, there are plenty of threads on how to deal with them...but I am here just to list them prior to moving to my own. Some of my own may even incorporate these tactics, either with spare points or with an ally to help you by taking these actions.

The Mixer: This tactic is a mix of balanced forces that slowly pushes forward. A slow moving defensive line that bends and flows with the needs of the battle. This tactic calls on having everything you need at hand and in-of itself could be a thread of it's own. It is super generalized as it morphs to the situation needed... but always well-balanced with units a player is comfortable with.

Wall of Armor: Tank heavy with ATGMs. We see this the most with Pact. A ton of tanks moving from cover to cover with supply and some AA if they are smart. I like to do this one myself, but a mix of it.

The Air Rush: As many helicopters as possible OR a select few veteran Mi28/Apache with recon. Command-hunting, flanking, what ever. Always a swarm or vets+recon.

The Arty Spam: Recon + Lots of artillery, or worse, as much cheap arty as possible with supply. The prior tends to find concentrated enemies and fire away...the latter just fires wildly into your spawn/line of attack hoping for that random kill. I have seen 3 players take nothing but cheap gun arty, and cover the map in shells.

The Tank Rush: Lots of cheap tanks or tank destroyers down the roads/flanks. Nothing special to day.

The APC Rush: Same as above but tons of cheap infantry.


Good, that is handled. I'm sure I missed one or two... but those are generally the most common things to see on the field.

I'll start with something special...

HOW TO HAVE SUPERIOR AIR DEFENSE
Quote:
The most common thing I see are players taking one anti air unit to ward of helicopters. Sometimes even 2 or 3... but they don't use them to good effect. It keeps their armor rush safe or their defenses alive around them...but helicopters are often free to fly around.

Images with this are http://www.wargame-ee.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3478&p=37676#p37676

While good AA is expensive to do, if you are in a team game where you can risk some points... there is a way to keep the enemy from EVER taking a helicopter ANYWHERE near your defense zone.

Kill zones.
If the map is to large to defend a specific zone with a few AA units, this can guarantee your enemy a headache.
Depending on how extensive you wish to have your anti air... is how many units you will take for each kill zone. Typically I run two or three kill zones. One in my spawn (strongest), two further out on my flanks (weakest.) Each kill zone is a separate zone of rape. Since we do not have the mobile radar stations real air defense zones would have... we make do with recon. It is essential to have recon with your anti-air systems, and a supply truck.

Heavy Kill Zone consists of two segments, the core and the outer.
    Core
    1x Recon
    1x Supply truck per 2 missile systems
    1x heavy missile system vet-2 (Chap/BUK/KUB/Roland)
    Outer-ring
    3x heavy gun systems or light missile systems forming a triangle around the core. (Tung, )
    or/and
    8x cheap gun systems forming a ring around the core. (15-25pt AA guns)

Light Kill Zone consists of one system. Guns are useless here, enemy air will rarely get within gun range unless the enemy isn't keeping track of them. The light kill zones are meant to sit off on the flanks to prevent the enemy from hovering Apaches or what-not off to the side of your team picking off units, or worse, catch the helicopter rush with it's pants down BEFORE it reaches your primary AA!
[list]
1x Recon, 1x Supply truck
1x or 2x Vet-2+ AA Infantry
or
1-2 Vet-2+ Heavy or Light Missile Systems (Tungusta, Roland, etc.)[
OPTIONALIf you have points, one ATGM team and 4 basic infantry to defend)

The smaller the map, the tighter these kill zones can be. You can have as many light kill zones as you want to afford...just make sure you have team mates doing the fighting. If the enemy air-rush doesn't happen, outer-ring defenses in the heavy zone can move up to the front line to defend units/zones... and light kill zones can be mobile as needed.

TIP: AA Infantry can not be seen easily if their APC is not near them. Hide them in some bushes and put your APC for them somewhere else - if you want to risk it? Put it in an open field in range of your AA. Helicopters fly past your AA Infantry to kill those pesky APCs...only to discover SAM infantry sitting right next to them! KABOOM!


More to come soon.

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Last edited by Commissar Fuklaw on Wed 21 Mar 2012 16:38, edited 5 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 19:26 
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Joined: Thu 1 Mar 2012 02:14
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Part 2.

The Offensive Airborne
[quote]
This is easily merged with the air defense prior-mentioned. I often do this, with kill-zone air defense, and keep a Command vehicle in home-spawn. It keeps me useful to my allies in case my helos fail... The helicopter mounted infantry is no rush. It is a rapid redeployment. You -could- rush them in, if you wanted...and possibly die to heavy anti-air systems before you even get to land... (A SAM hitting your helo as it unloads can hurt infantry with HE.)

Here is a loose representation of my US Airborne list, generic enough in that you can do this with Pact as well, or other NATO forces...but I like my Black Hawks!
    Helicopter Airborne things.
    -Airborne Command (1)
    -Airborne Supply (1 should be all you need, at most two)
    -Recon Helicopter with Exceptional optics and fast as possible - this is important.

    [4x Helo Inf, leave 5th open for next part of list]
    -Riffle Infantry in Helos
    -ATGM Infantry with Vet-2+ in Helos
    -SAM Infantry with Vet-1+ in Helos
    -Recon Infantry or Commandos in Helos
    Optional Air
    -Cheap Fast Assault Helo (Cobra, Huey, Mi-8, etc.)
    -A2A Helo
    -Apache/Havoc
    Basic core items to keep you useful.
    -Ground Command (Hold your original spawn if no one else is or you are alone.)
    -Supplies
    -Cheap tanks and one core tank you might find yourself in need of late-game (T-80, M1A1, Patton Rise/T-64 at minimum)
    -One ground infantry, cheap. This is a fall-back item for defense or what-ever you find use for.
    -Support as you have room for, cheap is good, Rolands/Tunguskas pretty much a must have.
    -Cheap ATGM/SPPG/RR vehicles (UAZs, Tow Jeeps, etc) to assist your defense or offense.

    The Tactic: Set up a minor defense with your core units on the ground. Some AA and your Command vehicle if necessary. I usually put 500 points into ground and either maneuver them with my allies or keep our spawn safe and my Command truck safe.

    With ground secure, get:
      1 Supply Helo
      1 Recon Helo
      4-8 ATGM infantry
      1-4 SAM infantry
      1 recon/command infantry at minimum
      4+ Basic Infantry[as many as you want after at least four!]
      If possible: 1 or 2 AA Helicopters.
    If you don't go point-heavy on the infantry you should get an helicopter command.
    IF you have any points after that? Use them as you see fit. Gunships are nice but risky with AA.
    Place helicopters over trees so they start flying!

    Second game starts, send Recon Helicopter down your attack path ahead of your force. Your AA helos will follow the Recon with your main heli-group RIGHT behind them. If the way is clear, fly past enemy "lines" into their backside where they won't normally look for you. Land your helos out of sight to refuel with the Chinook if necessary. Once you are 'safe' behind lines, use your recon to check your target's outer perimeter.

    If the enemy location is hostile, and you can "march in" from your safe zone. Do so. If it is not to hostile and you can land something near? Send recon in to take up permanent watch from a tree line. Do not lose your reccy helo, it only exists to see if you can safely land near, or do you need to march in on foot entirely...it later becomes useful. HOWEVER - If the enemy has air and they chase your recon? FLY AWAY FROM YOUR HIDDEN FORCE. Do not give yourself away.

    If your attack is impossible, even on foot, pull your helos back and find another target. An air born infantry assault on the right area can cripple an enemy. Even sending 2-3 inf to separate command zones...often the enemy does not have enough defense to stop a rapid-drop...but this can be risky.

    If it is possible, you need to do the following. This can vary in order based on your situation, or entirely new options not listed here. This list provides merely an example of how most my assaults go.
      IMPORTANT: Always move helicopters away from combat when they have unloaded, unless they are armed and you wish to risk them! SAM HE will hurt infantry, crashing helos will kill freshly unloaded infantry, points will go to enemy, and you might need helos again later.

      Step 1: Recon Inf (or Helo if you don't have the Inf for w/e reason) in place to safely watch enemy locations.
      Step 1.1: Commandos or riflemen on foot to enemy spawn to shoot at anything that comes in, if possible. Or a single ATGM + SAM doing this if there is wide open space between cover and spawn. A cheap option, mind you, but an option. Put hold-fire on until your attack begins.

      Step 2: Fly in SAM infantry, land well out of sight of enemy, march SAM inf into places to cover your attack.

      Step 3: Fly in ATGMs & Air-Supply closer to the enemy than the SAM inf but still protected by them if necessary. By now the enemy will be very aware of your presence. Make sure your ATGM infantry are on at least two flanks or VERY spread out....artillery will hurt you. The goal with ATGMs is to eliminate any short range AA or tanks. Keep your air supply with your largest group OR on stand by to refill as needed. Best case scenario - no artillery...

      Step 4: Once the area is secure as possible, the enemy will either A: Flee with his command, B: fight with whats left, C: Not have noticed while busy elsewhere... at this point, fly your riflemen in to wherever his command vehicle might be hiding. Kill it and anything there.
      Step 4.1: Bring in gunship helos if his air is down, keep them clear of forests. Their rockets and ATGMs are handy here.

      Step 5: Soon as it is secure, move ATGMs to take over defensive positions.

      Step 5.1: If it is a spawn-able position, move command Helo into place only when you are 100% sure it is secure from AA or hiding units that could threaten it's safety. By now you'll have points, use the spawn to bring in armor/light cheap vehicles first.

      Step 6: Defend, if the enemy is winning or has reserve lines, they are now coming your way. Soon as your Command helo is done bringing in reinforcements, flee to safety until you are sure a response force is not coming soon.

      Step 7: Once you have secured location with new units & cheap ground infantry, reload your helicopters, refuel them if you can. Find new location. If possible. If this isn't something you want to do, you can keep your air infantry in base and attack with cheap ground... or defend the place...etc. Up to you.

      While this tactic does not always work, can be high risk, and feed the enemy points... it often, to some degree, does some good on the battlefield. Just remember - you are not here to helicopter rush! You are using transports to move infantry into a tactically useful position to flank the enemy.

Part 3 to come sometime soon, getting into more crazy tactics like All-Jeep assaults, offensive recon (ACAV M113 for example), dedicated positions, guerrilla warfare, and more.

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PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 21:56 
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Joined: Wed 15 Feb 2012 08:43
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Great writeup!

I use a fairly similar airborne list and strategy on pact in 2v2+ games. While not the best all around force, when it works, it works really well and is a lot of fun! Having yourself or a teammate save points to bring units on in the zone the airborne+command captured can be surprising to the enemy. The most important thing I've found is to save the helicopters at all costs. I like the unarmed Mi-8 as a troop transport so I'm not tempted to use them as combat helicopters. Second most important thing (as was noted) is to drop the infantry undetected in a safe zone and have them march the rest of the distance to the target. I also like to keep my infantry in single units so that they can spread out their landings, and so they're not as vulnerable to single artillery shells.

As noted, it's important to redeploy the airborne infantry once they've been located or when you feel they might start to take artillery fire. I like to bring in a ground command and cheap ground infantry, sam/aaa, and defenses and pull the airborne out once I've secured a zone.


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012 01:23 
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Joined: Thu 1 Mar 2012 02:14
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Avoiding Artillery and Encompassing Your Foe

Quote:
"There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark..."

As demonstrated in this photo... use the power of two! In this game I knew my opponents well. My girlfriend and a good friend of mine were the foes. I knew he had plenty of units to engage me... but I needed a nice photo for this next part. How to avoid being abused by artillery and HE.

Image

I almost always have half if not more of my cheap tanks in groups of 2. I click each one to drive non-stop past the enemy positions, almost a rush but not quite. While the light tanks soak up fire, the heavier tanks move in for the kill.

Once in gun-range efficient distances (not shown here) I will split my heavy hitters into single tanks, spread them out extensively, and let them sit and shoot at the opponents who are now likely rear-facing my big guns... Usually at this point the enemy is dropping artillery. My units of two are spreading out, circling around, and coming back down on the enemy position.... while my single, very spread out, heavy hitters are mostly safe from focused artillery.

The trick is to not focus on a single point. The game tends to automatically put units onto a straight line to their destination...usually clumping up nice and good for artillery. Even units of 4 is highly risky when your mass of armor is on the move under artillery fire.

By making a very wide line of cheap tanks, and a small force of heavier tanks spread out behind them... I can usually hit an enemy hard. To many targets. I will slowly bring him into a nice bear hug of armored death.

Often behind these lines lay my AA units and logistics units. If the line hits a harder enemy force at the objective than I had anticipated, I will slowly pull my heavy hitters back, and the most damaged units. Reversing where possible. Repair, relocate, try in another location.

The key to any wide armor offensive is the the following 'average' make up. No specific numbers here, you can try and find what works for you...

    -60% Throw-Away Tanks
    -40% Medium Tanks
    -10% Heavy Tanks
    -2-6 cheap AA units like the Kamaz ZU you see in the upper picture (i forgot they went faster and lost track of -them in the fight...oops!)
    -2 Medium AA (Tungs/Rolands)
    -1 Heavy AA optional (BUK/KUB/Chap)
    -At least 4 logistic trucks to begin with, your tanks will use fuel going cross country like mad.

In the end, your face should be something like this when the enemy realizes his artillery is practically useless at this point.
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012 01:54 
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Joined: Sat 25 Feb 2012 06:18
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Location: Québec
Great topic, but I would like a screen of your air defense grid if you can. It will help me to see how you spread up your SAM and flak.


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012 05:21 
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Kovlovsky wrote:
Great topic, but I would like a screen of your air defense grid if you can. It will help me to see how you spread up your SAM and flak.


As requested.

Main setup. Takes a lot of points to do this with vets and good units in number...you pretty much become dedicated AA in 4v4s and 3v3s... which is why I recommended varying how large/complex you make this.
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The Core with maximum units on Pact. Minimum would be 2-3 vet 2 Tunguska, 1 vet 2 KUB, and 1 ammo truck for vet 2 KUB.
Image

Outer Ring Tunguska.
Image

Outer Ring Strelas and some Konks.
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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012 05:37 
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Thank you! I often eared how SAM batteries worked in team with Flak and by disposing them in "formation", but I never really tried to apply that in a game. I will apply it whenever I can afford it. I also really love the idea of a airborne battalion, it can surely be fun to play and probably surprising for the ennemy who will think that you are again a cheap generic rusher. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri 16 Mar 2012 14:44 
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Joined: Thu 1 Mar 2012 02:14
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Kovlovsky wrote:
Thank you! I often eared how SAM batteries worked in team with Flak and by disposing them in "formation", but I never really tried to apply that in a game. I will apply it whenever I can afford it. I also really love the idea of a airborne battalion, it can surely be fun to play and probably surprising for the ennemy who will think that you are again a cheap generic rusher. :mrgreen:



Aye it happens... it isn't a rush, it is a full combat force. Rushing is mindless with no tactic or unit diversity...

With the AA formations, you can vary what units you use, even Tunguska for center and 3 shilkas for the ring around it. Its all on how you want to use those positions... the KUB/BUK/Chap -> Rolands -> flak/vulc is just the most extensive (and expensive) route... it isn't so much how you use your units, but how you place them. I all the time see people clump their AA into one spot... take advantage of that range difference!

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PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar 2012 18:44 
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\Death Blossom/
Quote:
*Will try to add pictures later*

Lately I have been testing out a few things with tank destroyers (Marder VTSI and Zhalo for example) - but any unit would work in this role as long as they are faster than most tanks. Often I find myself against a numerous enemy or a line of enemy defenses. They have just enough that a full head on attack wouldn't work... and being someone who doesn't like to spam rocket artillery? Gun and Mortar carriers wouldn't help as much on breaking their moral before a frontal assault. To spread out to hurt!

So what do we do in a situation like this?

You attack in two waves! Light units trundle forward, followed by heavier hitting units. It works, it throws the enemy off balance sometimes as he repositions to deal with the light units driving up close and personal... so here is the tactic!

Note: This tactic's weakness is recon! If the enemy gets a good bead on you...and Smerch/MLRS' your units... even indirectly...that broken moral can throw this entire plan out of shape. It also works best when the enemy does not have tons of helicopters to hit you with. Have one or two AA to pull up with the main force just in case.

What you need.
    1 Recon if possible!
    12+ light vehicles of any sort that can harm armor or shake them at least. Zhalos, Marders, BMP-2s/3s, what ever you can fill this role with.
    2-4+ APCs of infantry who will ride in with the light vehicles. Each unit spread out, not a group.
    X Number of your primary attack force. It just needs to be what-ever you would normally use to kill the enemy. Nothing special here.

Step 1: With your recon, assuming you have it, locate your enemy! Find where his defenses are. Find what area is weakest in tank destroying units...and for god's sake, avoid flame units at all costs, if they are in the forest! That crap will rip you up! Once you've found the enemy, move on to step 2.

Step 2: Position your light units forward, with APCs right behind them...and your main attack force a bit further back. Mostly just to avoid artillery.

Step 3: Attack! Move your light units and APCs into the enemy lines. Once they are in firing range...in your baddest 1980s reference to The Last Starfighter moment ever, yell Death Blossom and begin laughing maniacally. No seriously. SPLIT YOUR UNITS. ALL YOUR TANK DESTROYERS. Yes it hurts moral, but the idea here is simple... send them EVERYWHERE. OUTWARDS. Do not stop to fight. Do not stop to shoot. Do not stop to call grandma about this cute puppy you see on the side of the field...

To Explain without the silly: Your light units are now broken up and you quickly click to send them out in every direction -forward- (not back!), spreading out. Yes they will be susceptible to more moral damage... but now your enemy has targets going every-which-way, behind his lines if you found the read 'weak spot' to attack.

Step 4: Unload the infantry the second your light units are passing by. Will add to the confusion and you will take some tanks with you.

Step 5: While all this chaos is going on and the enemy is desperately trying to stop a "lol bum rush" - your actual force is driving up behind him. If you did it right, his rear armor will be exposed to your MBT's. Also it may be good to have some ranged AA in the area too...by now enemy air is coming.

Step 6: Circle back! Bring the light units back around, begin regrouping them if you can't micro that many units. By now the enemy is firing on the more serious threat. Now he is being pinched between two forces and possibly infantry in his face.

Step 7a: IF ENEMY HAS ARTY: If you know the enemy has artillery? Once you have decimated the enemy or severely hurt him... fall back to your own lines and repair. Fall further back than your staging ground. You've decimated his defense and he won't be catching up soon.
Step 7b: IF THE ENEMY HAS NO ARTY: Take the ground, recon to see what is elsewhere to insure you didn't just wipe out a small expeditionary force or something. Send in supplies to repair.
Step X: If you want to, and you know the enemy has artillery or something soft in the back, send 4 or so fast and light units down the road and go command or arty hunting. No more then this.

Prepare to be called a rusher, even though you use a balanced force.


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PostPosted: Sat 17 Mar 2012 22:32 
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Joined: Fri 9 Mar 2012 06:47
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Not so sure that's such a hot plan there.

It's sort of similar to Hart's "expanding torrent," but it seems to me that fanning out behind the front might make you susceptible to defeat in detail. Further, splitting up your sections is a huge micro headache.

The light units followed by heavy units obviously works, not least because the light units act as bullet sponges and allow the heavy units to sit undisturbed-- possibly a use for the unstabilized tanks.

Not entirely sure about the rest.

Another huge issue with it is that very few people set up their forces in a line. Defense in depth is the order of the day in this game and it's likely to remain that way.


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