Lied? Why so surprised? Hell they've been doing that for the entire topic!

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Dude-dude-dude. Dude... Dude, this is a serious charge and you must prove it. When you tell that we lies you mast give your version with your facts, dude, we serious peoples here. It's almost an insult.

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Hitler's reaction on Ultimate patch
Soul of Wargame

I just must say this - it was the Germans.

First thing that you need to remember when you reading something about talvisota it's why there wasn't communistic party in Finland. Because most of reds was killed or prisoned in early 20th and red parties was just illegal (Another side of coin that communists parties was in most cases was under control of Comintern and that guys was freaking red Al-Qaeda). Finland was hostile to USSR. It's historical fact. We and Finland was like US and Cuba. Only we had ground border. Now watch and think what any different country did in our place.
1) Government of your nearest neighbor - your enemy
2) They can destroy your main industrial center and port by artillery without crossing their own borders.
3) They negotiate with German (who build their air force) and Japan. Japan is enemy of USSR, Germany is head of Anti-Comintern Pact. You can call it Russian paranoia, but

4) 1 September 1939 race between Reich and Union began.
5) 13 September - France forces retreat from German territory to Maginot Line
6) 17 September - RKKA started Polish campaign
7) 28 September - corresponding agreement between SU and Estonia. Not a single political claim was made.
8) 5 October - same with Latvia again - no political claims. Same day we asked Finns about their position.
9) 10 October -Lithuania joined to Union deck.
10) 12 October - Finland started mobilization. Not so long time ago it was enough for declaration of war.
11) 13 November - Finn delegation leaved Moscow. After they cross border soviet border guards was fired by finns.
What followed next you know. 28 November non-agression pact was denounced by SU. That was in fact declaration of war. 30 November troops crossed border. Germans asked Finnish government to give up. Army asked Finnish government to give up. Poland experience asked Finnish government to give up - Brits and French will not come to help. But Finns government didn't listen. Tell me where was our fault? What we did wrong? What should we did?

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Hitler's reaction on Ultimate patch
Soul of Wargame

In the 1990 your governemnent admitted to be responsible for this genocide (though they didn't call it genocide).

You forgot to add to your timeline signing the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact. You forgot to add that the communists party in Finland was banned due to unsuccessful revolution.
The Baltic countries were forced to join Soviet Union under the threat of war, they had no choice other than accept it. Finland on the other hand refused it and statistics we can say they won this war. It was Soviets who started artillery barrage on their own village and denouncing non-aggresion pact doesn't mean declaration of war.
Finally, Finland may have been hostile to SU but according to soviet policy everyone (even their countrymen) were hostile to Soviet Union.

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Member of the No Unit Community.

Ribbentrop & Molotov; it's so funny to remember that Stalin was kneeling before Hitler, and discovered the man real intention with Barbarossa... Secret Service of URSS was too occupied to hunt civil opponent within borders, to understand the threat...

I did not include Molotov-Ribbentrop pact because with it I must include Munich Agreement and very large material about British and French. Maybe later. We have topic about the Soviet-Finnish relations and not about all pre-war diplomacy.

In 1939 they were not. I special point you that our agreement with Baltic countries didn't have political claims.

You can't prove it just like I can't disprove it. Finns tells that battery moved to area after shots, we tells that it was on position before. You do not believe to the official Soviet documents, we do not believe to Mannerheim's and Khrushchev memoirs, which are used as the source by Finns.

De jure - yes it was not, de facto - it was.



Still you didn't tell me what should we do? Criticizing - offer.

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Hitler's reaction on Ultimate patch
Soul of Wargame

You should because this is the reason of Soviet-Finnish conflict.

They all come to Stalin on their knees begging for loose their independence?


You shouldn't have signed Ribentrop-Molotov and share Europe with Hitler.

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Member of the No Unit Community.

They was joined to Union by force in 1940. But we talking about situation in 1939. In 1939 they was independent.

We tried to make pact with Britain, with France even with Poland. All our initiatives were buried. Most part by Poland. (I can post in details, by it's long text, if you and others interested I can translate, but i think we already had a lot of runglish text here ) First negotiation started 14 December 1933(!) last started 18 august 1939 and representatives of France and Britain had no authority to sign anything!

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Hitler's reaction on Ultimate patch
Soul of Wargame

Interesting Troll thread.

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We need more missilez code for the missilez god.
Praslovan:
"Tactical Ikalugin inbound on this position in 10... 9..."