Why does nobody use RR jeeps? Cheap as chips and extremely effective against any cheap armour.

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On rushing to a sector.

Most of us rush out of the starting blocks to the sectors we want, most of the time this is not halfway across the map. More confident players might rush the nice high point sector but this usually leaves his flanks open. The sectors we go after are also pretty much set in stone and the same goes for the arrival time in the sectors (nice indicator of a rusher). IF you as a player are to passive to move forward in the early stages and take or at the least contest a good sector than its your own fault. It does not mean the game is over if you dont get the high point sector. It simply means you have to play smarter from that point on. More points mean more units, but it also means more oppertunity's to lose that unit bc you will want to attack whit your " supperior force".

On base rushing

Simply leave 100 or so points open. If he ground rushes u call 4 20 point tanks (for wp t62 for nato vts1.....) and place em next to you FOB (teams of 1 or 2) and if there is a HELI rush buy AA. These units can hold out long enough whit the help of the FOB for you other forces to arrive and fall on the enemy's flank. This ofcourse means you will have to scout and see them comming. The sooner you see them comming the more easy it is to setup at your fob/flanking routes.

On vts1.

Deal whit it, as pointed out in pretty much every vts1 topic. NATO has one ground combat unit whit a good price /quality combo, that is the vts1. It has ok main armament 3/5/3 and the 2/2 armour combo is also pretty nice. And still this unit is 20 points.

1-you can also vet units.
2-A nato vts1 rush is limited by one unit pick. When nato players have to face a rush they have to face several unit slots of cheap troops. Troops that are cheaper than a VTS1 even. Troops that can also kill said VTS1. Nato player will most likely also have a bigger selection of units for a normal game. so limiting the number of hard counters to the rush.
3-you are right, and since WP has the quantity advantage on every lvl i do not see a big problem here when facing a nato rush.
4-That is your own fault, you want AI to do everything for you?
5-Morale needs a change indeed, how is food for another topic.
6-Depends, for nato i woud say yes. for WP i woud say no. Wp is in the position of having allot of affordable units that at the very least can hold the line. Also in general and especially for wp (they can widen there available pool of units cheaper and so faster) those units selected to counter a rush do not become useless.
7-Its a wargame, player vs player. One game they opponent will use hiss command vehicle other times (if he/she rushes) they are hidden until they see if it works or not. So the desicion to go command hunting depends on the opponents actions. If they do have take sectors then you know in what area the command is, and can usually narrow it down more whit approach direction and available cover.
8-Problabe, depends on ammo that is used. But since we work whit stats to represend strength of ammo/calibre that is leaves the morale system as the only way to give any extra effects.

Lets make a list of ground combat VEHICLES WP gets for 20 points or less that can succesfully engage them. Leaving inf out, but we all know how devistating inf can be when in range.

Tanks
T34. 15points 1/1/1/1 armour, 3/3/3 main armament, 2/0/1 HMG. Both DDR and Polish
T55. 15points 2/1/1/1 armour, 3/4/3 main armament. DDR and CCCP
T62. 20points 3/1/1/1 armour, 3/5/5 main armament.
Vehicles
ASU-85. 15 points 1/1/0/0 armour, 4/2/3 main armament, 2/0/1 HMG
BMP-1. 15points 1/1/0/0 armour, 4/10/0 ATGM!, 2/4/2 Main armament. BMP-1 sp1 for DDR
BMP-1 obr. 1970. 20points 1/1/0/0 armour, 5/10/0 ATGM!, 4/4/2 Main armament. BMP-1 sp2 for DDR
BTR-70....... 20 points 1/1/0/0 armour, 6/4/3 main armament. HELLO? Read the part to the left.
OT-62 TOPAS-2A 10 points 1/0/0/0 armour, 3/0/1 HMG, 2/3/3 Recoilless Rifle.
OT-810D 10 points 0/0/0/0 armour, 3/3/3 main armament
UAZ SPG 10 points 0/0/0/0 armour, 2/6/0 Recoilless Rifle. Both DDR and CCCP
UAZ Fagot 15 points 0/0/0/0 armour, 6/10/0 ATGM. Both DDR and CCCP
UAZ Konkurs 20 points 0/0/0/0 armour 7/10/0 ATGM
SU-122-55 15points 2/1/1/0 armour 3/2/4 main armament, 2/0/1 HMG


You woud think there is a big enough selection of vehicles alone to counter a NATO rush. And now WP players finally know how it feels to get rushed. All those points you made where pretty much countered by " pick better units" or "l2p" or "pro (lol @pro's) can do it".

TL;DR get over it.

PS: Also remember that a NATO player who rushes whit all vetted VTS1's (or unvetted) gimps his own unit selection. The units nato uses to counter wp rushing also goes for WP countering NATO.

A spam to defeat a spam. How lovely

I don't understand what pleasure you can get from the game if you play it the same way every time. Rushing is so boring.

In games like this there is always going to be spam.

You'll almost certainly get pushed off this point if 1200 points of VTS1s arrive with AA cover.


Actually, there's several. The VTS1 is currently the best choice but as Bentguru says there are others the title can move to. He says he knows where he's going if they simply nerf the VTS1. I know where I'd go, and while it probably won't work quite so well, chances are it will.


Vet has very little to do with this point.


People aren't perfect. Every little thing adds up and everybody makes mistakes. This particular one is very easy to make when trying to back up mutliple combat groups while simultanously calling and managing reinforcements. You cannot assume perfect play when balancing, however much it simplifies things.


Few of them are hard counters. The ATGMs are pretty cost ineffective as they'll only take me down to 1 hitpoint and not kill me. A lot of the units relying on their main gun suffer from lack of speed. You're also going to need to be stocking at least half your force on these units to stop a rush. This is going to heavily set you back against those who don't rush as it's pretty easy to defeat this kind of light unit heavy army as NATO. With AA and a command truck and recon combined in this is going to be pretty much all your money.

Anyway - care to post up some replays of you defeating a VTS1 rush in a 1v1 ranked game? Competant rushers only please. To be honest I think one of the main signs that things are not quite right is Bentguru's stance. He actually wants the unit he uses every game to have it's price raised to 30 points!

Those units might not be a 1vs 1 counter but you can get more of them than for a vts1.

30 points woud be to much. you might as well take a basic patton. Better main gun, HMG, better armour, same size. only down side is size. you can take 24 basic pattons vs 20 marder vts1's. Now the slower speeds reduces the abilty to rush ofcourse but it does not take away the crazy price. And as you say few of them are hard counters but they are there so no reason to increase the price by 50%, we havent seen any increase in the wp prices but in my experiance they are becomming less frequent and why is that? As a NATO player we have had longer to make sure our deck and tac's are good enough to stop/reduce the rush.

Also why shoudnt you be pushed off if 1200 points of units fall on a smaller portion of your force? Doesnt matter if said force is all marder vts1 or another combination. As you know well enough if you play the game at all is that you fall back before them and assemble a force to stop them and counter push or simply lead them into your meatgrinder.

People need to learn to take this tac into account, same as nato players had to take the high chance of rushers into account when they started.

I am amazed that people are up in arms about the vts1 when the obvious problems whit wp are beeing ignored, its time for the wp players to addapt and overcome, its not like they have no units to do the job. There are more than enough units to the job.

If people cant bother to supervise there units in combat they deserve to get blown up.

If there is a nerf on the vts1 and in my opinion there shoud not be one then it shoud be in there available number. down to 16 or if the cry babys really win to 14. But a point increase making this unit to expensive to even consider is stupid.

And yes there are unit(s) that coud do the job less effective on the nato side. But people will just qq and rage about it all over and get it nerfed. The supperiority of WP in certain area's wich cannot be denied (stats say it all) almost force the NATO player to get his lick in on the first few minutes or he will simple get pushed back.

You really complain about NATO having one spammable unit? Seriously? Did you ever look what WP has?



The list above is really the only thing that has to be said about this topic.

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Everything in that list has either the disadvantage of being slow, no all round armour, or both - and in the case of the SU-122 a 'Big' size.

For the VTS - which has the all round armour and will comfortably outrun most things - Zhalos being an obvious exception - a reduction in availability seems like a decent first step.

Although, there are some lateral thinking ideas to counter such a rush.

You seem to be completely misjuding how much a unit's speed can influence it's combat effectiveness. The basic Patton at 40kph cannot be used in nearly the same way. The gun, manchine gun and amour are nice, but at 40kph it's a lot easier for the enemy to deny combat and outposition you compared to a 70kph unit. You're going to find it massively harder to do any sort of agression with the Patton. It's the same problem as you get with a lot of the Pact cheap units you listed - they're mostly 40-50kph, which is a big step down from 70kph. It's why Zhalos and BMP 685s get used a lot.

Another NATO tank at a similar price is the Leopard 1A1. Same gun with more ammo, slightly better range, but worse fuel efficiency, slower and a worse (IMO) armour profile. They're pretty much the same unit except for armour and speed, and for me the VTS1 wins on both counts.

What makes the VTS1 so powerful is the combination of armour, firepower, speed and cost. Nowhere else on either faction do you get all four of these in one package. The Zhalo comes close, but the armour is a huge step down, especially against the amount of autocannons NATO often has, the Rise Patton and BMP 685 are also comparable, but the armour isn't really enough for the price to be able to do a similar thing to the VTS1. All of the other pact "spammables" you listed are slow.

Also, you're being awfully dismissive about the reversing issues. Sounds to me like you're an awesome player. Me? I struggle a bit to keep four combat groups reversing away while remaining in contact while also managing the rest of my forces, especially as you need to reissue the reverse command every few seconds as shift-clicking causes your units to stop at every waypoint. One misclick and you're suddenly presenting rear armour. Can't find you on the rankings list though. What name do you play under? I'd love to see some replays of you're awesome micro.