No, they don't "easily kill T-80s" as proved. All OP linked vid showed is that, surprise, if you drive tanks into point blank range with autocannons with all their weapons off they will die. Color me shocked. That doesn't mean 20mm autocannons are a viable anti-tank weapon, and they clearly aren't. Show me a replay where 20mm autocannons kill T-80s that are actually fighting, then we'll talk.

Or, alternatively, we can do a practical test ourselves. My PACT tanks vs an equivalent point cost of 20mm autocannons. I'll bet you anything that pact armor wipes the floor with them.

Name is the same in-game as it is here.

edit and by "actually fighting" I mean being fought intelligently, not standing still and letting enemy units close to point blank

I make new video and you again say "it staged". Invisible 20mm vehicles staying in brush like on last video+ video where 20mm vehicles rape T-80s. Too hard to sum 2+2?

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I didn't say it was staged, I said that if somebody charges a treeline, under autocannon fire, with units that have no armor, and no recon of his own, he deserves to lose his units. Nothing you have shown me so far has actually indicated that 20mm auto cannons are imbalanced.

I'll give an example of what I'm looking for. This:

http://www.wargamereplays.org/index.php ... lay&id=120

is what an overpowered unit looks like. When you have a replay of yourself doing that (or the 1v1 equivalent) I will be convinced.

Small 20mm unit easily can sneak at tree especially when lots of other targets in combat. Right? And obviously can kill even heavy armor tank. Right?

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I dont think the 20 mm should be able to kill top tier tanks at all at any Range. Maybe do little damage at the rear but thats it. 20mm against Modern Tank armor is like shooting peas at a tanks.

And dont give me this crap where you say "Well if they get that close its your fault" You know it happens to you too, the Luchs and many other APCs can out run your tanks and stun and kill them with their speed and tiny gun. Plus tanks miss WAY more than they should.

How is that vid outdated ? i don't remember reading anything about T80 or recon getting a massivge change.

Stun and rout is a problem and is discussed in another thread started by Tigga. Problem is that units morale drop too quickly if they get shot at a lot, even if the shots miss or dont penetrate. It'd be the same with an Abrams being shot by many T55 or a T80 shot by many leo 1 or aml90. Routing units also don't recover fast nor well enough.

But it's a general problem of the game, it's not a specific problem with autocanon.

Besides all the "proofs" here are stage vids, or situations where 1 player make a big mystake.

It's almost like making a blob of troops and then complaining about chopper rockets/mrls being OP because they routed the blob


@ count

Replace the kurz with infantry and you'll get similar results. Or a sheridan. Get recon infantry, a few tougher units in your attacks (say a tank with decent armor), problem probably solved

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Boogie Van on balance talk

Infantry have LAW to kill tanks, no problem with this. But LAWrange is only half of 20mm range, less ammo. 2 infantry squads probably run out of ammo after first 6 kills because they often shoot at same target and 1/3 misses. Luchs used 400/800 rounds and scored 18 kills. Efficiency!
Sheridan may be work too, even with triple price, because it counted as small target. 3 meters tall and small, right
PS i remeber in RUSE recon cars also was invisible in woods slaughtering all non-heavy armored. Seems like Eugens feature

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There is something wrong here. I just bought the game yesterday and played a couple of mplayer matches with a friend of mine. We both have close to 2 decades experience with Tactical wargames (CC, CM) and we do think that Wargame EE is like a newer version of those old but fantastic games. The problem I saw yesterday is that a 20mm shreds through any frontal armor like its butter. That should def not be the case. At most it might damage optics or disable guns, MG or anything that is on the outside of the tank and could be dmgd by shrapnel or ricochets. In my opinion the 20mm cannon should only be affective against infantry and lightly armored targets (choppers, APC´s etc..). I really hope that eugen changes this, although I don’t have a lot of hope since they have not be real community friendly in the past RUSE (no mod tools etc..) although it would be a shame…

PS:
You guys who think that here is nothing wrong with the way 20mm cannons work should think about the fact that player community should stick together when a problem that is this obvious arises. Childish remarks and comments won´t help anybody here. So, if you are bored go play a StarCraft but don’t fill up this thread with nonsense.

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After some testing, I finnally agree that automatic guns are too powerful. They should only destroy optics, tracks, but never actually destroying a tank stronger than an unupgraded T-62 when firing on the face armor. I lost a T-64 against a Luchs before they could return fire in the last mission of the Russian campaign in something like 12 seconds. Thats totally unrealistic and frustrating. I think it should be tweaked to have only a incapaciting capability against heavy tanks (stunning, breaking morale, wrecking all kind of optics, main armament and whatever, but not destroying it). It's not game breaking, but it's a shame in a game which want to be even semi-realistic.