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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2012 11:15 
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Romiros wrote:
Maybe I made a little mistake with word "join" but in general I right.

I'm wondering how you will call Poland from 966 to 1775, dependent or independent?
And btw, people were dying in Gułags but they weren't sentenced to death. We can find that 40 millions people died there.

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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Tue 13 Mar 2012 20:54 
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unkelek wrote:
Romiros wrote:
Maybe I made a little mistake with word "join" but in general I right.

I'm wondering how you will call Poland from 966 to 1775, dependent or independent?
And btw, people were dying in Gułags but they weren't sentenced to death. We can find that 40 millions people died there.


Naah, I'm sure the Gulags were actually just a mistranslation of "Vacation Timeshare" and the deaths were just totaly fabricated.

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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Wed 14 Mar 2012 08:26 
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That was soooo easy
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unkelek wrote:
We can find that 40 millions people died there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... A6rg#t=47s
Why not 40 billions?

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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 04:24 
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The number of deads from the stalinist purges are hard to certify, but the numbers I see quoted the most are between 10 and 15 millions of people. Although the gulags are well known, those were not death camps, but were hard labor camps. Those who were killed there were died most often because of abysmal living conditions or by the arbitrary violence of the camp keepers. The most horrible gulag was at Kolyma in the far east of USSR and it was run by a kind of a corrupt satrap. All other deads were actually not killed in gulags, but in the NKVD's prisons and torture centers or executed after making fanciful confessions obtained after tortures. So it's a mix of murders made by a paranoid regime or criminal negligence. There is nothing to be proud of in the actions of Stalin. History is rarely totally black and totaly white, but sometimes the grey tint is not far from black.


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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 07:40 
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That was soooo easy
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Kovlovsky wrote:
The number of deads from the stalinist purges are hard to certify, but the numbers I see quoted the most are between 10 and 15 millions of people. Although the gulags are well known, those were not death camps, but were hard labor camps. Those who were killed there were died most often because of abysmal living conditions or by the arbitrary violence of the camp keepers. The most horrible gulag was at Kolyma in the far east of USSR and it was run by a kind of a corrupt satrap. All other deads were actually not killed in gulags, but in the NKVD's prisons and torture centers or executed after making fanciful confessions obtained after tortures. So it's a mix of murders made by a paranoid regime or criminal negligence. There is nothing to be proud of in the actions of Stalin. History is rarely totally black and totaly white, but sometimes the grey tint is not far from black.

Very easy to certify.
Code:
Information about deaths of prisoners in the Gulag in the period 1930—1956
Year   number   % to all
1930   7 980     4,2
1931   7 283     2,9
1932   13 197    4,8
1933   67 297    15,3
1934   25 187    4,28
1935   31 636    2,75
1936   24 993    2,11
1937   31 056    2,42
1938   108 654   5,35
1939   44 750    3,1
1940   41 275    2,72
1941   115 484   6,1
1942   352 560   24,9
1943   267 826   22,4
1944   114 481   9,2
1945   81 917    5,95
1946   30 715    2,2
1947   66 830    3,59
1948   50 659    2,28
1949   29 350    1,21
1950   24 511    0,95
1951   22 466    0,92
1952   20 643    0,84
1953   9 628     0,67
1954   8 358     0,69
1955   4 842     0,53
1956   3 164     0,4

In total: 1 606 742

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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 08:08 
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Source?

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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 08:17 
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That was soooo easy
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unkelek wrote:
Source?

Central State Archive of Russia.

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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 09:46 
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What happened after 1956 ?


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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 10:31 
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agroq wrote:
What happened after 1956 ?

Khrushchev happened. Historians explored the "Stalin's terror", Stalin died, rehabilitation began, the rest does not apply to the subject of research. Numbers from other years can be found in some deep and specialized magazines and data books from Federal Penitentiary Service, but who cares?

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 Post subject: Re: Tears of Putin
PostPosted: Thu 15 Mar 2012 10:37 
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Me...
People died but who cares? Goulagspresso what else?
It's important in this discussion because i'm trying to show you that the end of URSS and the regional conflict created by it, was less lethal than when URSS was existing... But as you said, it's not really important, people killed by KGB, or in goulags were bad citizens and so are not to be accounted for...


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