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PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug 2012 02:57 
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I tried using a mass PACT army a few times. One match lasted 15 minutes, the other 7minutes. This is the issue with Mass ATGM pact army:

-Pact has crazy amounts of dirt cheap accurate anti-tank. (Motostrelki) (BMP-1)
-Pact has dirt cheap spamming anti-air.
-Pact has dirt cheap spammy tanks. (T-55, T-62)
-Pact has good long-range artillery.

The point being...The most you'll have to spend on a unit is about 35CP. This allows you to amass vast quantities of ATGM and AA units with ease, especially in a 2v2 6000point match. The reason we won so quickly is because all the units are incredibly quick and you can just use a tonne of them! PACT is very hard to counter-attack when they are on the move especially if you have 2 players using them, you don't even need to stop in order to destroy units. Against 40 motostrelki (quite a small group) Challenger 1's, leopard 2A4's...Don't stand a chance, chasseur famas die easily against the T-62's and T-55's especially with the sheer quantity of them.


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PostPosted: Mon 20 Aug 2012 11:52 
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ChronoTIG wrote:
especially in a 2v2 6000point match

There's your problem right there. 3000 points per player is just too much and all tactics fly out of the window.
1500 pts per player is perfect.


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Aug 2012 18:52 
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skiierman1 wrote:
You think the dragon is the key? That thing can't hit a barn at point blank range. Not to mention the fact that infantry has less chance of surviving than a tank because they aren't armored.


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PostPosted: Tue 21 Aug 2012 19:24 
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skiierman1 wrote:
You think the dragon is the key? That thing can't hit a barn at point blank range. Not to mention the fact that infantry has less chance of surviving than a tank because they aren't armored.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Aug 2012 01:36 
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skiierman1 wrote:
What if he has supply trucks?


Do you not have mortars? Use them FFS, even armored trucks aren't that heavily armored.


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PostPosted: Wed 22 Aug 2012 14:35 
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If they are in a forest try to flank it with some inf.
Mortars and helos can take ATGM easily
Other solution is APC rushing since most ATGM are infantry or unarmored but I don't like it :?

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PostPosted: Wed 22 Aug 2012 15:46 
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Im really more afraid of nato atgm. They got acc10 ap14 for 30(jeep) and 55(m113) and milan f2 with a freaking 15 ap for like 35.

As pact you usually have 12 ap atgm and a few 14 ap shturm.


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PostPosted: Thu 23 Aug 2012 00:52 
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Joined: Fri 9 Mar 2012 20:45
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Quote:
1 US armored command
original fob
4-8 1-2 vet MBT-70
0-4 $45 Sheridains (Occasionally Vet, Also I usually keep their main guns off in case the situation calls for them to be on)
1-2 $65 Marder Rolands
1 Fully Vet $35 Chaperalle( Spelt Wrong)
2 Panzergrenadiers in Marder 1a1
1 $80 Bradley Recon
1 Rangers In Bradley
0-4 Dragons II (in helo or inf carrier depends on deck)
2-4 $35 US Mortars
0-2 AMX-10P/MILAN
or
0-2 jaguars 1 or 2
1 hemit
2 Chausser Famas in vabs


I'm new to multi-player so thanks for posting.

I like the fact that this build only uses 13 deck slots and leaves me 12 open slots to round out my deck. Although I'm a multi-player newb I think understand most of the concept/s of this build, but I do have a few questions.

1. ATGMs/Arty/Attack helos eat supplies so I'm wondering about logistics. 4 CP/Chinook/HEMTT/Jupier or 2 CP/Chinook/HEMTT/FOB?
2. How are you using the Dragons in helos (ambushes) and what INF carrier are you using when not using helos?
2. Are MBT-70 and Sharidian the only tanks you use? if not what else (ABRAMS/Leo or Valrise/Patton/ML-90)?
3. Do you field additional indirect fire (MRLS/AUF1/ML-60)?
4. Do Chausser FAMAS/Dragons fill the spammable cheap INF role or do will I need something else (Riflemen M113)?

Don't ROFL about the Riflemen/M113. As an American I'm desperately trying to find uses for these awful units.

It seems to me that the M3A1 Bradley CFV (RECON) is pure beast at killing Pact units (even recon). If I'm not mistaken this is because its exceptional optics allows it fire the deadly I-TOW at max range (2626). If this is correct I assume the M3A1 CFV (RECON spotter) will allow other platforms in the area to engage targets at max weapon range, as well making anything carrying an I-TOW very very dangerous.


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PostPosted: Thu 23 Aug 2012 01:42 
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BlackBirdBlitz wrote:
Quote:
1. ATGMs/Arty/Attack helos eat supplies so I'm wondering about logistics. 4 CP/Chinook/HEMTT/Jupier or 2 CP/Chinook/HEMTT/FOB?
2. How are you using the Dragons in helos (ambushes) and what INF carrier are you using when not using helos?
2. Are MBT-70 and Sharidian the only tanks you use? if not what else (ABRAMS/Leo or Valrise/Patton/ML-90)?
3. Do you field additional indirect fire (MRLS/AUF1/ML-60)?
4. Do Chausser FAMAS/Dragons fill the spammable cheap INF role or do will I need something else (Riflemen M113)?

Don't ROFL about the Riflemen/M113. As an American I'm desperately trying to find uses for these awful units.

It seems to me that the M3A1 Bradley CFV (RECON) is pure beast at killing Pact units (even recon). If I'm not mistaken this is because its exceptional optics allows it fire the deadly I-TOW at max range (2626). If this is correct I assume the M3A1 CFV (RECON spotter) will allow other platforms in the area to engage targets at max weapon range, as well making anything carrying an I-TOW very very dangerous.


My take on these questions :

1. 4 CVs/Super Chinook/HEMTT/FOB. You can delete the FOB and get Jupiters if you want in a low point environment.
2. I guess he meant deploying Dragons quickly early game to that key terrain before your enemy can get there ; choppers lose a lot of their usefulness later in the game. If deployed with a ground vehicle, the M113 series works best ; you've got all the spectrum of the M113 series to tailor to your needs. For example, deploy them in the basic M113 and give some additional vet with the money you saved when you want to deploy them to a defensive position from which you won't move. IIRC, the Dragon 1 only has 1 accuracy and 1 AP less than the Dragon 2, so it's even more cost-effective if you use the basic M113/veterancy trick. If you're a king of micro, deploy the Dragon 2 with the M2A1 Bradley and watch every tank go in flames ; make sure you've got something to distract your enemy though, as the Bradleys are juicy targets.
3. I'd recommend the M1A1 Abrams and the M60A1 RISE Patton ; the Abrams is perfect for taking out high end medium tanks, while still having enough armor to withstand limited ATGM threats, while the RISE Patton can make short work of anything less armored. I don't really like the AMX-30 series because it lacks of AP ; 6 AP means anything with 3 or more of armor will need 3 shots or more, while the RISE Patton's 7 AP raises this limit to 4 of armor, and if you take a look at PACT's tanks, a lot of them have 3 or more armor at the front. Take a look at the Big Chart to know how many hits it takes for an AP value x when facing an armor value y, and you'll see how inadequate 6 of AP is in a lot of cases. Anything over 50-80 points should be treated with ATGMs if you can, as these targets are juicy enough and generally quite armored. Add some M60A2E2 Starships if you can play with them ; with vet 1-2, they're decent against everything, and even without vet, they simply shred cheap spams, as they can fire the main gun and the autocannon at the same time, something only the MBT-70 and the Starship can do.
4. Personally, I moved away from the Chasseurs FAMAS to get the Jäger instead, as the higher caliber rifle should stun a bit faster the enemy infantry, while the lower anti-tank efficiency is compensated by the higher availability. But that doesn't mean the Chasseurs FAMAS are bad ; just be sure you don't really need more than 20 squads. But the other infantry squads aren't bad either ; the Fusiliers are nearly as good as the Jäger (just 1 point less in accuracy for the LAW), but they come with either the cheap 5-point FV603 Saracen, so you can spam them or even vet them for cheap (Just be careful with the fact the FV603 only has 5 HP). Or deploy them in the FV103 Spartan, an incredibly fast tracked vehicle, meaning that moving offroad will give you no problem at all. While the Riflemen are uncontestably the worst 10-point infantry NATO has to offer, it doesn't mean it's that bad ; if you deploy them in basic M113s, you can vet them to have very cost-effective infantrymen, while the basic M113 will provide you a 10 HP meatshield with an M2 HB Browning to do some damage. One thing you should know is that tracked vehicles move at 110 km/h on roads, whatever their speed is on the spreadsheet, so the basic M113 will move as fast as the FV103 on roads ; same thing for wheeled vehicles, but the speed is higher, at 150 m/h. If you pair them with Bradleys, it will give you access to 32 M2A1s Bradleys ; just watch how many Bradleys you can deploy if you select the vehicle card instead...

The M3A1 CFV is a pretty good hunter/killer as it can spot and then engage whatever target it wants ; as a pure recon though, it's overpriced because you get very good optics for 80 points, something you can get for 30 points with the M151A2 MUTT or 50 points with the SpPz Luchs A1 if you want more HP and armor. The other problem is that when you engage the enemy, you become visible, and 80 points make the M3A1 CFV a juicy target. If you want to use those, make sure to never fire if you're not sure of the consequences ; open fire if and only if something else can draw the attention away from the CFV ! And of course, always hide the CFV !

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PostPosted: Thu 23 Aug 2012 03:00 
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Joined: Fri 9 Mar 2012 20:45
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@EricTerminator: Thanks for the response. It was just the kind of information i was looking for.

I contemplated using Riflemen/Dragons with M113s but didn't know the movement speed on roads or think about vetting them. Using them in Bradleys and dropping them off while you kite away could get pretty interesting for anyone pursuing you.

The 75 point M2A1 CFV has VG optics and the 80 point version has exceptional optics. Exceptional optics should allow the M3A1 CFV to acquire the target, fire the I-TOW (10ACC/14AP) at max range (2626m) and 1-2 shot almost anything it hits. If RECON spotting allows other ATGM platforms to fire at max range like it does for main guns then every platform in the area equipped with I-TOW should also be firing at max range (2626m).

If I'm not mistaken most (if not all) non-recon assisted Pact vehicles won't be able to see 2626m away and wouldn't be able to return fire without moving closer. In which case every M3A1 CFV assisted vehicle equipped with I-TOW/Shillelagh-C (including jeeps, M113s, Sheridans and MBT-70s) would be engaging at 2626m. Using the M3A1 CFV / MBT-70 / Sheridan with I-TOW/Shillelagh-C is the only reason I chose the Sheridan over the Starship. That said, you make a very good case for the Starship and I may switch or add it to the deck.


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