Sustained fire isn't that easy. Maybe the first two shots could be above 8rpm, but it drops pretty fast...

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"Rocks are OP. Paper is fine" signed: Scissors

Welp, regardless of what happens, the critical mass of complaining was reached along time ago, so something will be done.

I'd still rather have the range buff than anything else because it means a deeper metagame, and, well, every other unit type has had at least two ranges for their main weapon with the exception of tanks, but, eh.

Either way, arguing the validity based on the amount of changes is null, as well, as once the balance patch happens, we can point whatever way we want to after it's done and the problems that were created.

The select medium tank buff does well to even out how ATGMs need to be made viable, as well, along with the fact it does push the game towards a more realistic avenue, but, eh. Squeakiest gear gets the oil.

Five or six months from now, I see it keeping a deep and interesting metagame, whereas simply nerfing the heavy tanks range back a bit seems to settle for a less interesting approach to a problem that can be handled in a multitude of ways, and instead of stepping forward, you're stepping backward. Yes, the range buff is treading into the unknown, but I'd rather be experiencing that and then deciding what I wanted to do then going back to the old ways and sticking to them.

The nerf, in my mind, threatens to make the game more interesting, whilst the buff would certainly deliver, but it would threaten to be more volatile. Considering the game is about unit experimentation, that certainly seems like the better option.

Whatever happens, the balance of the heavy tanks certainly has to change, I'd wager it's the Leopard 2A4's and the T-80U's that contribute primarily to the problem, everything else is kinda, eh, it has its draw backs.

Food for thought: if 9 AP was the biggest we really got for main tank guns, wouldn't this also solve the problem by forcing heavy tanks to engage each other at the same range as cheaper tanks, and allowing them more room to maneuver and operate effectively?

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I'm sorry, but you didn't put up any proof as to why the current meta is more interesting.

And many people consider it way worst, witth heavies sniping everything an ourunning everything, and the game reolving around killing the T80U or Leo2A4. Heavies already pretty much had a range advantage over medium and light tank pre buff because of armo and penetration.


buffing mediums will only move the problem from medium to ligh tanks, who will in turn be much less viable, and it makes NATO atgm infantry even worst. More importantly it affects how the medium deal with all units in the game, while the problem is the way heavies are too effective against almost all units


wha? Maybe it's because 'm no a native enlish seaker but i don't get this sentence


Well if ofc it will make the game more interesting :p

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Boogie Van on balance talk

...Kamfrenchie I'm not gonna repeat anything I've already said in this thread anymore. If you wanna know why I think so, go back and read the past couple of posts; indeed, even Cygnus has said it's easy to counter items like the T-62M-1 using heavy tanks, which was basically the point of that, they help make PACT's ATGMs less useful than they are.

Either way, seriously, this thread is probably 25 pages of me saying it I don't know how many different ways so that you can understand it; holy hell, are you just trolling me or are you actually that stupid that I have to keep coming up with ways to repeat it back to people like you? Either way, it's not worth the effort.

Here, how'a'bout, it gives the realism people a kick, tones down the effectiveness of heavy tanks, and mitigates the fact that ATGMs need to function with some consistency at which point when they do, someone will likely scream they're OP (and I'm not saying PACT ones are OP but there's a very likely scenario of that happening with the range nerf), so before everyone starts whining, why not let the whole paper rock scissors thing just have some level ground? That's the idea, and that's the last time I'm going to repeat it.

And I also said threaten, not that it will, that it will threaten. Over time it may end up fairly dull like this, that's a possibility, isn't it? Heavy tanks are the solution to one problem, medium high priced tanks can be made a solution whilst also offering additional gameplay depth in the tank category, moreso than units like the T-62M-1 and T-62M-V already are (I know at least a few people in this thread use them to snipe out heavy tanks; Cygnus).

Other avenues are entirely changing the heavy tank balance, and another idea I like is the 9 AP maximum. It would likely create a number of interesting scenarios with what we've already got.

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Then you can agree to disagree?

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We need more missilez code for the missilez god.
Praslovan:
"Tactical Ikalugin inbound on this position in 10... 9..."

The amount of posters in this (or every other similar thread) is not even a fraction of the people online at any given time, yes even if there are only 150 online at a time.
Also in a mayority of public games you will see a completely different game than people descripe here. Yes most use the Leo2 and almost every pact player fields T-80Us (i give the nerf whiners that) but you see all the other units and certainly a lot of "medium" tanks.
Its some posters here that are stuck with an unvaried metagame, but honestly the mayority of people, that play the game, moved on and adapted their gameplay to the range increase while fielding a large variety of units. I have seen MBT70s, Sheridans, M60s, T-55s, T64s, T72s, T-34s, AMX30s, AMX32 all being used, just yesterday.

What i havent seen in games was Johnsushant, JimHatama (only once) and Cygnus.

If Eugen decides the current game is not what they had in mind they might change it, but probably not just because of a drama thread where even the nerf callers could not agree on what exactly has to be done.

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Everytime someone suggests paradrops god kills a kitten.

That has been the point, hasn't it? Awhile ago I elaborated why I had considered the idea of the nerf, and decided against that. It's useless to say more on the subject, isn't it? Instead, shouldn't we just start considering other avenues, e.g., rebalance of the heavy tanks through lessening AP, or putting a 9 AP 'governor' on them, because either way it's been discussed to death?

And lord, I totally agree with you Misfit, but I conceded the thought that heavies as a whole should be made less valuable through enhancement of other units, or changing in their stats. I think, heavy tanks even do odd things like make helicopters more viable by placing expensive AA in relatively known locations to defend expensive tanks, which if either of them are lost, tends to leave the other extremely vulnerable. I know, that's exactly the opposite of DeuZerre's logic, but that is what I tend to experience in-game.

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Strange that I put a long post with thoughtful reasoning, and people against the idea just seem to ignore and what was in it. Surprising how argumented posts are a bother.

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"Rocks are OP. Paper is fine" signed: Scissors

Nobody says that cheap tanks don't have a use. Tanks that cost 45 or cheaper are still very useful, like they always were.

However, when I see someone using AMX-32's I laugh, and kill them with my T-80Us. Same thing for pattons or T-64B and upwards. MBT-70s are free points as well, their ATGM barely hits, and even if it does that's like 1 damage to the front armor of a T-80U, big deal when you can kill them in 2-3 shots.

So wait, are you implying that I don't play the game misfit? Seriously? I am limiting my play time currently due to exams, and even before that I don't remember ever playing with you. This isn't a drama thread, but a legit complaint. Yet you continue to make things up and throw your stupid opinions around.

Because occasionally experiences differ.

So, Cygnus, really, only the T-80U's the problem (And Leopard, but we know that already god @$%!ing @%^# it), then? Well, hell! Shouldn't we instead of be entirely re-adjusting the range tweak the stats of a few select tanks?

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