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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Fri 1 Jun 2012 23:47 
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What if T80U got its AP decreased by 1 to 10, and their max upped to 4? Would that be too much for Pact?

EDIT: And I really wish they'd up the 120's RoF. 8 RPM at very least, to the Autoloader's 10 RPM. But that'd cause a balance crisis I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 00:22 
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Oh hey DueZerre, I read that huge post, and you got me, I have to agree with you. The range advantage is just too much.

What I got out of it was tanks should all have the same range (1925m). And very well thought out on DueZerre's part.


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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 00:49 
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Guggy wrote:
What if T80U got its AP decreased by 1 to 10, and their max upped to 4? Would that be too much for Pact?

EDIT: And I really wish they'd up the 120's RoF. 8 RPM at very least, to the Autoloader's 10 RPM. But that'd cause a balance crisis I guess.

The max rate of fire is 8 RPM for the manual loader, less as the battle goes on (and the loader get tired).

Also Leo2A4 has only 15 rounds ready for combat (the rest needs the turret to be turned at a specific angle and is in the hull)

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 01:45 
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Cygnus wrote:
Equal numbers of T-80U will beat equal numbers of Leopard 2A4. At max range you deal 2 damage compared to his 1, have 10 RoF vs 7 and accuracy 8, which is less than Leo's 10, but still enough that you will hit often. The ATGM is not neglectable as it's a great addition: it's accurate, has the highest ATGM range possible and is SALH type with 8 accuracy.

And it's not hard to beat 4 leo2A4s with 2 T-80U + support. I personally find that in the current meta, 2 heavies are the optimal choice as it frees up money for other things. However, that's unfortunately the problem right now that you actually will NEED those 2 T-80U's to hold your own against the Leo2A4s and vice-versa. Anyway, this thread was about how heavy tanks are too much of a dominating presence in the game, not whether T-80U is OP or not (hint: it's not).
Well, obviously a complex matter here.

Anyway you said that Leo 2A4 is obvious because it outclass the rest of NATO tanks and it's very true because it has max points in key stats for a tank. If T-80U approach you just fall back and switch to stabs.

ATGM is weak for reasons I stated before. Also drain supplies.

So you field two MBTs, I for the most part too... for ranked mostly one. But when you got your Leos destroyed you have two more to field with 10 AP gun to engage 10 armor Pact tanks, when someone loose his T-80Us he is in some serious problems.

In hypothetical situation you don't need a heavy tanks to deal with another but it's just theory.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 02:00 
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ikalugin wrote:
The max rate of fire is 8 RPM for the manual loader, less as the battle goes on (and the loader get tired).


It sure as hell isnt "Max" 8 RPM in reality.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 02:59 
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Guggy wrote:
ikalugin wrote:
The max rate of fire is 8 RPM for the manual loader, less as the battle goes on (and the loader get tired).


It sure as hell isnt "Max" 8 RPM in reality.

Do you have information to suggest otherwise, in moving tank, over rough terrain (not the smooth desert floor)?

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 03:24 
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Do you have any to suggest that we were discussing a moving tank over rough terrain?

5 or 6 seconds a round would be the best overall median for a tank engagement. Its what the majority of simulators use. But that'd be OP in WEE and require a significant price boost for the associated tanks.

Stationary, supposedly the fastest lap-loaded reload times were in the area of 3 to 3.5 seconds which is ridiculously fast, and ridiculously dangerous to the crew I imagine.

Google for crew testimony if you want, manually-loaded cannons dont have a static reload time due to their nature. I'd settle for 8 RPM for the Leopard 2 and M1A1 though, it'd be fantastic if crew veterancy had a bigger impact on manually loaded cannons though.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 05:42 
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I recall a section in "Certain Victory" where a loader could initially do it in two seconds--he was described as the fastest loader in his regiment.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 05:55 
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Guggy wrote:
Do you have any to suggest that we were discussing a moving tank over rough terrain?

5 or 6 seconds a round would be the best overall median for a tank engagement. Its what the majority of simulators use. But that'd be OP in WEE and require a significant price boost for the associated tanks.

Stationary, supposedly the fastest lap-loaded reload times were in the area of 3 to 3.5 seconds which is ridiculously fast, and ridiculously dangerous to the crew I imagine.

Google for crew testimony if you want, manually-loaded cannons dont have a static reload time due to their nature. I'd settle for 8 RPM for the Leopard 2 and M1A1 though, it'd be fantastic if crew veterancy had a bigger impact on manually loaded cannons though.

Thanks, would read into it.

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 Post subject: Re: Heavy tanks = boring
PostPosted: Sat 2 Jun 2012 07:16 
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But when you got your Leos destroyed you have two more to field with 10 AP gun to engage 10 armor Pact tanks, when someone loose his T-80Us he is in some serious problems.


Yes, and that's one of the advantages of NATO. Factions aren't supposed to be perfectly mirrored, and NATO has a slightly advantage in this one.


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