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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 09:41 
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Chief Warrant Officer

Joined: Thu 30 Jun 2011 15:12
Posts: 616
empire_today wrote:
...It was until later on I realized the whole variety part of the game was gone, everyone I've been facing deployed the best unit in their arsenal for something they're meant to use later on, "realistically speaking", and they'd win because of their superior micro.

This can mean I'm bad at the game, but I did okay at the start.. maybe it was due to the lesser level of micro needed?

The micro was also good way back then, I remember going AFK for a few minutes to do other stuff, like eat cereal, then I'd come back and see how everything went.


I don't see many games won and lost by micro skills. The majority of players still don't know the basic mechanics of the game, still choose terrible units and don't know all the counters, or how to prioritise targets.

There's still loads of different tactics and strategies that can be used in every game, but skilled players will have seen them all before and will have some kind of counter for them just in case. As the game gets older the 'hardcore' players stick around and get better and better, which makes the casual or lesser skilled players lose more and more often until they ragequit.

Maybe while you was eating cereal, other players were improving their skills?


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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 10:20 
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Sergeant Major

Joined: Sat 11 Feb 2012 06:30
Posts: 277
empire_today wrote:
...It was until later on I realized the whole variety part of the game was gone, everyone I've been facing deployed the best unit in their arsenal for something they're meant to use later on, "realistically speaking", and they'd win because of their superior micro.

This can mean I'm bad at the game, but I did okay at the start.. maybe it was due to the lesser level of micro needed?

The micro was also good way back then, I remember going AFK for a few minutes to do other stuff, like eat cereal, then I'd come back and see how everything went.


People will always try out all stuff but as their level increases they will obviously realize what the best stuff is and stick with that. Just like how Leopards went from being unused before they got buffed to virtually everywhere 2 patches later. People will always used what seems to work best.
Micro skills is what separates a good player from a great player though. If someone is micro-ing his stuff better than you then HE IS BETTER than you and definitely deserves to win.


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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 10:52 
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First Sergeant

Joined: Thu 30 Jun 2011 18:58
Posts: 201
The meta game is still highly evolving, it might be to soon to make concrete statements that attacking is to hard, although at this point i agree.


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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 11:00 
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Second-Lieutenant

Joined: Wed 22 Feb 2012 15:14
Posts: 800
On the NATO helicopters. They MUST be more fragile. The pact only real advantage on choppers is their number of hit points. And that is still not reasonable! Mi24 and specially mi28 were made to be impervious to .50 machine guns. Cobras were not! That is why cobras are much cheaper than equivalent pact heli. TO have an USEFUL cobmat chopper pact has to pay 95 points!



On the ATGM of non tank. The tank ones must be improved as well. ALL the atgm need a 7.5% range boost. Right now tank ATGM is a HINDRANCE instead of a bonus. Becaus eyoru tank starts to aim with the ATGM but before it fires the enemy gets into cannon range and your tank abort the aim sequence and restart with cannon!


The change on gun range made ATGM nearly useless when compared to the cannons themselves! That is also main reason choppers are too weak. Range of ATGMis pathetic when comapred to AA range.

INCREASE ALL ATGM range by 7.5% and you shall have still MBTs as main forces in field but opening usage space for a LOT of other units.


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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 12:02 
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Sergeant First-Class

Joined: Fri 27 Apr 2012 22:29
Posts: 114
The main problem WEE has is the scale of the maps and the time it takes to get any sort of tactics other that rushes performed and without being seen by the godly recon choppers. Also lacking 'events' that could be fun distractions.

Some things that need to happen to make this game interesting and fun:
1 - Reduce recon choppers sight range dramatically or take them out of the game altogether. Maybe reduce their speed and increase fuel consumption to the point they can only be used sparingly. It would make the game a lot more fun to have recon vehicles playing skirmishes etc.

2 - Bring in the ability to air drop light vehicles and paratroopers so you don't end up with 2 dimensional battles with sides facing off like some medieval battle.

3 - Increase infantry movement speed so it doesn't take them half an hour to walk through a forest. They need to be hounding the enemy not be glorifies snails.

4 - Bring in mine traps, tank traps and engineers to make this happen. Yes this can lead to camping and what-not but there are way to reduce it's effectiveness etc.

5 - Insurgents who can disguise as the enemy and plant bombs/IEDs. This would add another dimension to the game and make people think. Again - ways around it to make it not bog the game down. Mine detectors specialised tanks etc.

6 - Airstrikes like in WiC but with reduced effectiveness etc. Instead of recon choppers have a quick limited use limited view recon plane circle and then f-off out of the battle.

7 - Remind people this is a bloody game and stop trying to destroy it by making it too realistic. Stuff I've mentioned just off the top of my head now would make the game FUN and also stay in the realms of reality.
I love the game but at lvl40 I'm getting tired already. I know it's going to be the same routine in every map now. Still enjoyable but less and less so. I've put hundreds of hours into CoH which like any game you see the same tactics but the difference is the counters can be vaired and each effective if done well and can be setup quickly. I sense WEE wil fade away in it's slow predictability.


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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 12:06 
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Joined: Sat 14 Jan 2012 22:34
Posts: 2158
reduce recon choppr? but recon chopper are most of the time USELESS!!

if yousay that cause you mainly use recon chopper as recon, you have to learn a lot!!

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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 12:11 
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Sergeant First-Class

Joined: Fri 27 Apr 2012 22:29
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Recon choppers useless? You're having a laugh. And no I use them with ground recon as well.


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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 12:13 
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Specialist

Joined: Sat 17 Mar 2012 15:38
Posts: 12
The game is floundering between two design (in)decisions, the first is to make it a simulation of armoured warfare in the 80's and the second to make a real time strategy game.

If Eugen had stuck with the first choice (simulation) then we would not have these silly decks which just allow you to pick the best units and discard the crap. What commander has ever had that luxury. Also better victory conditions could have been included.

If they had gone with the second choice RTS then they should have put far fewer units in the game but made sure they were well balanced. Balancing all the units currently in the game is a hard maybe even impossible task.

As it is the game is flawed on both counts which is a shame as it has such great potential.

Is modding the answer ? probably not, for multiplayer to work everyone has to be using the same units and performance values. Maps would be OK as you could download and add them in.

Its all very tricky, lets hope Eugen can sort it out as this is still one of my favourite games.


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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 12:13 
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Lieutenant Colonel
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Joined: Sat 14 Jan 2012 22:34
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no i don't laugh.. i'm wll known to never use them...

their are expensive, localized and easy to kill recon... and they are deftly not stealth... they have non of the things i want for my reco...

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PostPosted: Wed 2 May 2012 12:45 
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empire_today wrote:
@op: I know how you feel. I've also started playing less for the same problem. I've thought of coming back and dealing with the metagame, but I get bored, because I'm forced to use a certain selection. I still play W:EE sometimes against the AI though.

When I first got the game before the patches came out, I liked it a lot, it's the best game I've played set in the Cold War. My opponents would use a lot of different units, I never even knew about half of the ones I was facing, until later, when I was getting good at the game.

As the game got a few more patches, I noticed people started using strange units, like MBT-70s, which surprised me at the start. Eventually after the infantry reforms, a lot of players I faced decided to start playing to win, with one strategy that I had NO response to.. AA+AT combos.. it was very annoying, eventually this strategy got old and not a lot of people did it anymore.

Pact got more weaker as the updates came along, so I decided not to play the game until another patch comes out. When another patch came out, the game became a bit better, but the community changed, lol. Sometimes when I join a game, I see a bunch of guys in a clan, looking for an easy win. This didn't make sense to me. It was until later on I realized the whole variety part of the game was gone, everyone I've been facing deployed the best unit in their arsenal for something they're meant to use later on, "realistically speaking", and they'd win because of their superior micro.

This can mean I'm bad at the game, but I did okay at the start.. maybe it was due to the lesser level of micro needed?

The micro was also good way back then, I remember going AFK for a few minutes to do other stuff, like eat cereal, then I'd come back and see how everything went.

I'm not complaining about heavy tank + anti air combos, but people seem to buy a heavy tank at the start just to ruin the first wave of the opponent and go in for an easy kill.

I tried a few ranks games, but I'm not a competitive player, so I lost a lot.

Right now I decided to try using my old deck on the game, but I've been losing pretty badly. I guess I'll wait for a new patch.


So basicaly, you never played the game for very long and now things settled down and a good portion on the community knows how they want to play and know their units well?
Of course most pact players field 2 T-80Us because they are so fotm, but i still see a heck of a lot of T-62s and other low end tanks. Maybe anyone remember the time where NATO players used every available Chasseur FAMAS once, because they where the fotm. And people cried about them the same way others cry about heavy tanks now.
Yes there are units that arent used as much like others, but that was the exact same case before the increased range for some MBTs. Personaly i dont see more diversity in an army of Pattons and T-55 clashing into each other than what we have now. Besides, Pattons or VTS1s outgunning T-80s, like before the patch, wasnt the perfect game either.

The pasture is always greener on the other side.

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