Well... You might laugh at the title a bit, as by now it appears we have gone through "Everything is OP" (especially Spaceships and M113s).

But, well... I have been using these guys with my motostrelCis. They are the second transport of the TOPAS family and cost 10 points. They are tracked, acceptably fast, armoured enough, have a MMG and... (that's the problem) a recoiless rifle.

While this is in itself fine (Some transports have ATGMs right?) and they have extremely poor accuracy with a poor range.

But they have HE 3.

That actually makes them the best support vehicle for infantry in forests, by far. They are cheap and are extremely good against infantry. If one is blown by a LAW/RPG, who cares, they are worth 10 points! They blow deltas all day too. I mean... They blow them UP... Yeah, that sounds better. Due to the short range of the engagements, poor accuracy isn't a problem at all, and firing on the move with efficiency is possible.

They are actually too good right now.

Now, I don't usually whine about balance, but right now, these guys make it too easy for my motostrelCis. These guys are supposed to be good against tanks and poor against infantry, but with topas, they can win engagements with elite, HE 3 infantry, not much sweat.

NOW, how to "correct" (I hate the term "fix") the small problem, I've had a look around. It appears the Tarasnice (name of the recoiless rifle) is reloaded from outside. A crew has to expose himself to reload. This would cause the gun to not be able to reload/fire on the move (change I asked for the VTS1 by the way). There was no automatic cartridge extraction: It should reload a bit more slowly because of that (7/ minute is a bit extreme for such a reload system. Making it 4 or 5 would improve infantry survivability rates, and give them more chances to fire LAW/RPGs before being spread in little flying bits.

;TL,DR: TOPAS 2A kill infantry too fast. Reduce rate of fire or ability to shoot on the move.

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"Rocks are OP. Paper is fine" signed: Scissors

+1

5 per minute rate of fire seems good.

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http://www.wargame.com.pl/ - Polska strona o WARGAME!!!

T-72M1 <- gun's range buffed to 2275m <- might solve few issues, worth a test.

You're right, for their price they are very powerfull. For the close support role, what else can one have for the same money? Especially as you always have to buy apc's for your infantry, and in some cases you end up paying the same 10pts for essentially plain troop transports with very limited if any serious combat value.

It seems that overall abusing the "all-inf all-cheap" approach especially with pact is way too effective tactic, used by many players. It's one of the hardest to overcame IMO, and you see it used quite much as well by solid 40+ zero-sportsmanship players. This is how the topas goes into the bigger picture, and this is how it works;
1) anti-inf and close combat defense work, low-visibility areas -> large numbers of TOPAS2A inf. Can be used for no 2 role as well, especially if enemy has more numerous light screens the topas2 can engage
2) anti-tank work, more open areas and if enemy has more high-valued targets, 5+5 inf and rush them in overwhelming numbers against enemy armour and instalaw them
3) fair recon, and backing the aforementioned cheap (but stats wise extremely effective) cannonfodder topas-inf with buratinos so you can effectively stun the toughest enemy troops/concentrations before you rush them
4) throw in a few cheapest uaz's, zhalos and T-55's to your taste, and the mix is ready. Or, omit them completely and go all-in infantry.

Most effectively used when you blind-barrage enemy known held sectors so he's more likely to go raging and come forward to you with hesitated attacks.

1) That's fine, it's their job. If they own your units there, it's logical.
2) That only works en masse but you just have to move back slowly and it's fine. It's not woring anymore against half decent people, and the TOPAS isn't much help against HAT (High Armour Tanks)
3) This kinda works though, but recon and you see it coming, you spread out, and it's fine.
4) That doesn't work at all though. Not enough numbers of Zhalos/BMP 685 etc... To make a really potent force.

And overall, your post is quite irrelevant as it's just crying about infantry. Not about the TOPAS itself.

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"Rocks are OP. Paper is fine" signed: Scissors

Destroying infiltrated forces seem to be the only role in wich they excel since you can trade a 10 points vehicle for a 20+ infantry. Against more numerous regular infantry (usualy 10 points) they will be rapidly destroyed and since they only transport 5men squad. These men will be killed rapidly if you brought them with. You will certainly inflict 2/3 of what you will lose.
Moreover knowing what infantry is transported in your vehicles is a good intel for the ennemy, he wont fear infiltated IGLA/ATGM/Spetz

In conclusion they are realy good for their price but suffer from the infantry they carry = not OP for me.

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Eugen's law of maximal pain in the ass : If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong on Friday evening.

It's not really OP. It's just that a group of 4 + infantry can, without too much hassle, for 60 points, hold at least three infiltrated special forces, while losing around 50% of their forces, even if these infiltrated special forces are extremely strong against infantry and vehicles.

It's not "Special forces should go through anything" at all. The "problem" is slightly lessened against more numerous foes. But with they just have a too good synergy with the infantry they transport.

And admit it, when you see transports, you know what's in them 80% of the time.

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"Rocks are OP. Paper is fine" signed: Scissors

The main interrogation is when you see BTR60 and SKOT1, are they transporting cheap units or shock troops...

Same goes for the VAB as it comes with pretty much anything.

Other vehicle are easy to guess you're right but there is always my super cheap trick of the death

Are my rushing vehicles full of deadly infantry that will blow your heavy tank skyhigh or are they totaly empty just to make you expose your side armor ?

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Eugen's law of maximal pain in the ass : If anything can go wrong, it will go wrong on Friday evening.

These guys are extremely deadly against tanks, even the heavy ones. Sometimes they are destroyed, sometimes they reach their destination and kill even heavy tanks from the side or behind with unloaded infantry. If you catch the enemy while moving forward his tanks are basically toast as he can't move away quickly enough. Topas also act as a bullet- and ATGM-sponge while they are traveling, giving your other units a better chance to get into position without being fired upon.

The thing is, that you can easily gamble with Topas' for 60-120 points if the enemy's potential losses will amount to much more and you buy time for your other units to shoot at the enemy unhindered. In this respect they seem slightly OP to me.

About Special Forces in woods thing: Well, the SF units don't have APC support then, have they. Even special forces get crushed when outnumbered and don't have fire support. If the SF can ambush the charging Topas from inside the woods the fight should go better.

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Formerly shugyosha on these forums and still shugyosha ingame

I say stop nerfing pact units anymore! Smerch, motostrelci, T-62MV, vysadkari, T-72B, BMP-685, Zhalo and others have all been nerfed in some way! This is completely enough! If the topas 2A is nerfed polish and czech infantry will be even more useless. I hope there will be no more tweaks in the stats of anyn unit anymore.

I think they're fine. The troops that they carry only come in squads of 5, so that is where the balance is (Short range AT inf in squads of 5 is pretty high risk).

I prefer to take the motostrelcis in the BMP1, and they always have other inf/flame tanks with them that can handle enemy inf.